Electric car: physical limits and overall balance

[stipe]

citro,

by lower service I mean a degraded autonomy, the need to take into account the variation of autonomy depending on the season and temperatures, and depending on the age of the batteries, or the recharge time, among others. the pure performance aspect is relatively secondary for me

[Flytox]

For F1, when accelerating, the limit is the engine torque curve in the 1.45 G (from F1 Turbo to 1200CV)

For lateral acceleration and braking the limit is the tires and about 5 G !!!

http://f1.automoto365.com/news/f1/force ... 956-1.html

An overview of the figures is instructive: the maximum deceleration forces exceed 4,5 g in 3 points of Spa-Francorchamps revealed to us one of the suppliers of the brakes of the plateau of the world championship of Formula One,
Brembo: braking Combes (5,06g), in the left / right out of Pouhon (4,67g) and baffle bus stop (4,90g). In Bahrain, only the braking of the end of the straight line exceeds our reference mark (4,58g).

http://www.nitrobahn.com/nitro-barn/tip ... a1-racing/

The F1 is designed for high-speed cornering. An F1 can take a low-speed corner (between 80 and 100 km / h)
with lateral acceleration of 2 g. At high-speed corners, F1 cars have been recorded to generate lateral acceleration
of 6.0 during the Suzuka circuit. Even the best road legal sports cars
acceleration more than 1.1 g. An F1 driver will be subjected to extreme forces while accelerating, braking and cornering.
For example, at the turn 8 of the Istambul park where the Turkish GP is held, the driver has to sustain a
4.5 g and 5.5 g for seven seconds.

[I Citro]

by lower service I mean a degraded autonomy, the need to take into account the variation of autonomy depending on the season and temperatures, and depending on the age of the batteries, or the recharge time, among others. the pure performance aspect is relatively secondary for me

If the MIA offers a service equivalent to that of my 106 (designed and assembled at Heuliez, like the MIA), one of which still works very well with its batteries of 10 years of age and for which I do not report significant Falling autonomy in winter, it will do me very well ...
The charging time on a standard socket in 16A does not pose any problem on my 106. The MIA has more autonomy with 1 / 3 less battery capacity for the basic version, which allows it to load much faster than my 106 (8H00 for a full charge against 2H30 for the MIA).

Today, I did an intermediate load on our 2 106 during the lunch that allowed us to go to each of our occupations in the afternoon after a morning of hats ... On the MIA, 10 minutes of charge correspond to 8 km of additional battery life (with the standard charger) while on my 106, 10 minutes of charge correspond to 2,5 km of additional battery life, some fast chargers, or terminals of fast charges, on Bordeaux allow to recover 20 km of autonomy in 10 minutes for our 106 ... (but I do not use them, because does not feel the need).

[I Citro]

... Too bad, CITRO (and me itou) would be very happy to be able to buy a version with a S.Cx intelligent and adapted to its use, with the passage a good hundred kg less and more perfos.

1 / I will confirm my pre-reservation of the MIA that I think to try in preview in the spring, on the occasion of the inauguration of a concession of VE Bordelaise one of its kind, because having more than 10ans of after sales experience in VE (it reassures the customer) ...

2 / The average speed of our movements makes me think that the aerodynamics of the MIA, which I do not think is so mediocre as you say, makes me believe that it does not play a predominant role in the performances , on an regular basis.

3 / The question of the energy supplying electric cars is of great concern to their detractors.
MIA Electric has therefore taken the lead in associating the construction of its cars with a renewable energy development program.

Other objections.
More about the MIA electric website

... If HEULIEZ holds up, which I hope, the solutions will come from the fencers in this type. They will have no reason to embarrass themselves in front of the big builders who coldly let them down.

+1
I also think that it is the fencers who have the best card in hand.
Here is another, more atypical

[stipe]

Citro, at the risk of passing for a basic "anti"

Your car sleeping in a garage?
Because the experience I have of my electric-assisted bike that is confirmed by my salesman and by the other participants in a forum Dedicated, the cold lowers the performance of batteries (a history of internal resistance that increases). The returns I read in the press of the US electric mini test made me think that cars are not out of physics.

For the rest of your message you confirm what I say, the performance is slightly lower than today's gasoline vehicle (20 km autonomy after 10 minutes of charge, when we recover between 500 and 1000 with cars fossils) when it is for a higher purchase price, I think that many people may consider this an unacceptable disadvantage (quite subjective notion, perhaps even unjustified, I admit it willingly).

Personally, having tasted the bike assisted, for trips of less than 15 km (30 km AR) I do not take the car. Even though I also know how to be a marginal, and for a very long time

[RIAZ]

Hello I Citro and to all,

I am neither anti, nor fana, neither electriphile nor electriphobe (maybe Elec-phobe!).
I'm just interested in the means that will allow us to maintain the share of individual mobility that gives salt to life ...

I know that the choice of VE not too stupid is reduced and the future production of HEULIEZ is not uninteresting in this context.

It is nonetheless true that this car is a mini-bus (and designated as such on the manufacturer's website) intended to be part of a fleet, large or small (still on the manufacturer site).

Nevertheless, the laws of aerodynamics known for a century do not give the parallelepiped (ideal for a mini bus) all the qualities required to move with the least amount of energy possible. It should not be forgotten that this is the goal.

Your remark on your low average speed does not allow to decide. If you run 90% of the distance at 90 km / h, the snail speed of the remaining 10% can seriously drop the average!
But for the total efficiency of the course, what is decisive is the part made at 90 km / h. And it is even more true in electrical where low speed consumption is low, see zero at a standstill.

If your speed was uniformly low it would be better to go bi or assisted tricycle or 100% electric whose manufacturers care particularly aerodynamics although they are not supersonic ... Amazing, right?

Finally, if it's angry, we can stop discussing the true origin of the electricity used in the case of electric propulsion development, but the renewable electricity generation program you're talking about must be conducted with discretion . On the website MIA electric site (link that you indicated), I did not find anything, or so, it is well hidden.
On the other hand, I found very easily the fact that it will cost only 1,5 € / 100 km.
In this regard, is the MIA recharging system "open" or does it go through a box whose proclaimed intelligence will be used to tax electric fuel?

I think the people of Heulliez know all this and (hopefully!) That as soon as possible, with the experience and know-how they have, they will make the small vehicle adapted to the particular, much lighter, well more aerodynamic and therefore much more efficient.
And in addition it will be beautiful, far from the soapboxes (I do not speak of the mini-bus) of Martians we are shown to disgust us small cars.

[I Citro]

... your car sleeping in a garage?

Unfortunately no, she sleeps outside, gets dirty and frosty like today.

... the cold lowers battery performance (a history of internal resistance that increases). The returns I read in the press of the electric mini test ...

The MINI EV have LI-ION batteries (as far as I know), whose technology is different from my NiCd. I do not notice a significant decrease of autonomy in winter, but perhaps it is due to my management of the charges that I program so that it finishes shortly before my journeys ... As the load warms the batteries ...

For the rest of your message you confirm what I say, the performance is slightly lower than today's gasoline vehicle (20 km autonomy after 10 minutes of charge, when we recover between 500 and 1000 with cars fossils)

I stop you right now !!
1 / The performance of EVs is not comparable to those of the thermal ones and it is advisable to choose one's VE according to what one really makes it. In my case, I'm satisfied with what I have, but, like everyone else, if I had more, I would be wasting more energy.
2 / "20km of autonomy after 10 minutes of charging", it is for the rare charges on a fast charger very powerful, expensive, outside the vehicle because it is bulky and requires high electrical power, therefore a more expensive "EDF subscription". In 50.000 electric km I have never done a fast charge.
3 / We do not collect 500km in 10 minutes with a thermal vehicle, we buy it ... It is also possible with an electric car by exchanging the batteries, as we change the batteries of his flashlight ... And some labs work on regenerable liquid electrolytes allowing 600km of autonomy that one will replace in 5 minutes in service stations comparable to statioins of essence ...

Personally, having tasted the bike assisted, for trips of less than 15 km (30 km AR) I do not take the car. Even though I also know how to be a marginal, and for a very long time

Bravo and continue, keenly that others who feel marginalized. At least you move intelligently and some end up understanding it, if you show them the example.

[toto65]

Hello everyone,
I made a comparison chart between electric car, fossil fuel car.
The point of view is what costs the least.
The recent bonus of 2000 € did not include.
page 4 last column is the annual cost


What is your opinion, on the cost of maintenance, insurance, rental batteries, the rising cost of energy (electric or fossil)

thank you, talk to you later

here is the doc exel and the pdf.

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... l0Mf1v.xls
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... YJlGuZ.pdf

[Philippe Schutt]

I do not know ... I have a doubt about your table from column F.
oops, finally on column C also

[toto65]

the painting is built like this:
vehicle purchase cost + insurance + maintenance + (energy consumption x cost of energy x number of Km)
in summary for the first year of use:
smart € 12
skoda € 14
polo shirt 15 € 261,46
zoe 17 €
C-ZERO € 18
CLIO III 5P dCi € 17
LEAF € 31

then increment with the annual cost:

smart 1 783,32 €
skoda 1 601,06 €
polo shirt 1 651,80 €
zoé 1 832,00 €
C-ZERO 2 279,56 €
CLIO III 5P dCi 1 695,44 €
LEAF 823,39 €

My self-criticisms relate to:
1- the energy consumption of 20kW / 100km electric cars <= seems a lot to me, do you have other hypotheses
2- the cost of maintenance of the electric car estimated at zero
it seems to me too little.

Philippe, what are your doubts? the annual cost?