Electric car in cold weather: testimony with the Leaf

[chatelot16]

a lead acid battery is capable of starting an engine at -20 ° C and even colder provided that the engine is in good condition ... there is no need to go to Canada to need it ... I am from the Doubs, where there are mouthe who complained a few years ago of being always cited for their cold record

the problem is not just starting: when it does not start the first time the starting attempt makes the battery heat up a bit, and a few minutes later it starts ... and once started the engine heat heats up everything: the main disadvantage of the heat engine becomes an advantage when it is cold! things are getting hot !

I am in favor of cogeneration: when you need to heat a house in winter it is interesting to use a generator to make electricity and heat at the same time

I find it absurd to make electric cars with gasoline or diesel heating ... while it is so simple to put a heat engine which makes both mechanical energy and heat ... especially when we see that the fuel heating webasto are horribly expensive, while heat engines are common

the solution is really the hybrid to have a good engine that heats up when it is needed, and a battery to leave the engine stopped when there is no need for heat and that we had the opportunity to charge the battery

[I Citro]

I must once again express my disagreement ...

The cold cited in the article (-32 ° C) is still extreme and 60% lower than the -20 ° C that you mention in your answers ...
By such temperatures, the majority of cars circulating in France would be irreparably out of use by bursting of the engine blocks, our coolants not being suitable. They would be impossible to start because lead-acid batteries would be inoperative, even burst by the gel of the electrolyte ...
In the countries affected by these temperatures, thermal cars are equipped with heating systems for engine blocks and batteries, and these are insulated ...

When there is no power outlet to keep the engine block and the 12V battery at temperature, users let the vehicles run 24 hours a day ... Otherwise, the engine blocks would break like glass when starting up. .

We can therefore say that the Leaf behaves overall very well for a first generation model ...
I suppose that the batteries have reinforced insulation for cold countries, even if that is still insufficient.

You should know that the Leaf is already in its second version and that the current model has a heat pump to replace the original electric heating, and that the layout of many components has been reviewed (more than 70 modifications ) ...

I find it absurd to make electric cars with gasoline or diesel heating ... while it is so simple to put a heat engine which makes both mechanical energy and heat ... especially when we see that the fuel heating webasto are horribly expensive, while heat engines are common

On the contrary, it is even so relevant that Webastos are generalized on many thermals.
The improvement in the efficiency of the engines no longer allows them to heat quickly both their block and the passenger compartment.
The efficiency of a Webasto heater is without comparison with the thermal efficiency of an engine.
The volume (the size of a dictionary) and a weight of 2 kg, for 5kW of thermal power make this accessory an essential object in many vehicles.

When the price, it is certainly excessive because of the virtual monopoly enjoyed by Webasto which has even allowed itself to buy out are its main competitor, Eberpascher ...
But the second-hand market is flourishing and scrap yards are beginning to have supply, even if they are not too familiar with these products, which makes it possible to find them at reasonable prices.

Webastos have been fitted in series or as accessories on heavy weights, construction and agricultural machinery, motor homes, high-end sedans and boats for several decades.

Today, there are serial Webastos on minivans and diesel sedans, as well as on quite a few vans.

In the past, optional or accessory mounting made it possible to benefit from the hourly programming of the heating or its remote switching on (remote control with 1km range).

[Alain G]

When there is no power outlet to keep the engine block and the 12V battery at temperature, users let the vehicles run 24 hours a day ... Otherwise, the engine blocks would break like glass when starting up. .

My car had a petrol Dodge Journey started at -37,5 ° C one morning without a problem and even my off-road vehicle started without being connected.

A cold spell and for 5 days rain and temperatures above 0 ° C, it's the extremes ...

[Macro]

You should know that the Leaf is already in its second version and that the current model has a heat pump to replace the original electric heater,

It still works a heat pump at -35

There's no picture in such an environment ... I wouldn't trust such a car ... a -35 broken down in the blizzard ... Lifetime of a normally equipped human ???

My sax it has a gasoline heating which at least would allow to stay frost-free even in breakdown of traction battery for a good time ... On the other hand even in oceanic climate it costs me more to heat than to ride ...

[I Citro]

My sax has a gasoline heater which at least would allow me to stay frost-free even if the traction battery fails for a while ... On the other hand, even in oceanic climate it costs me more to heat than to drive. .

I thought that placing the Webasto against the 12V battery was a bad idea and caused significant evaporation of the electrolyte, but to think about it, it is a good idea, it prevents the 12V battery from failing in the event of an extreme situation. ..

The integration of Webasto in NiCd EVs is quite catastrophic, there is no regulation ...
To modulate the temperature in the passenger compartment, you activate the zipper which injects cold air directly with the hot air, immediately cooling the vehicle ...

It is by noting that my fuel consumption for heating reached 1 liter per 100km that I changed the system ...

- I started by adding a switch in series on the control bar which allows me to cut the Webasto without modifying the air mixture ...
So the temperature drops slowly in the passenger compartment using the heat stored in the circuit, this allows me to cut the heating a few kilometers before arriving at the destination, significantly increases thermal comfort and even more significantly reduces consumption.
- I continued the modification by adding in series of this switch, a room thermostat which allows me to avoid overheating of the passenger compartment and further reduces consumption.
- Last modification, I insulated the whole Webasto circuit which is under the hood in order to limit the losses.

From now on, the gas consumption of Webasto, distributed over the year is:
0,15 liters per 100km on my car.
0,23 liters per 100km on the car of madam, devoid of thermostat and insulation.

If you're interested, there's a topic on forum GO...

[Remundo]

and I put on a coat and don't turn on the heater

[I Citro]

I also put on a coat, you don't need to be in sandals and shorts in your car in the middle of winter, so the coat allows you to regulate well below the "regulatory" 18 ° C in a house ...

However, I do not compromise with security and visibility ...
So I make sure that my windows are not fogged or frosted ... This is the role of Webasto.

[chatelot16]

The improvement in the efficiency of the engines no longer allows them to heat quickly both their block and the passenger compartment.
The efficiency of a Webasto heater is without comparison with the thermal efficiency of an engine.

it is very complicated to improve the efficiency towards mechanical energy ... but to improve the efficiency towards heat there is nothing to invent, it is enough to isolate everything

for a large heat engine nothing is isolated: it is considered a benefit to lose as much heat as possible without going through the water circuit

for very small heat engine whose main purpose would be the heating it is necessary to circulate water everywhere around the exhaust

my project of motor for cogeneration with high output for house, could be extended with a lighter version for electric vehicle

by serving as an auxiliary electric generator it will reduce the battery weight a little, allowing them to be used up to zero without fear of failure

basically a hybrid with a high priority to the electric

the advantage is that the generator becomes a completely independent machine, not needing to be integrated into the design of the vehicle like a conventional propulsion engine

the webasto ensures a certain security in the event of blocking in the snow in extreme cold, but I would not be surprised that it breaks down with 12V battery before being out of gas: a real engine only needs petrol and recharge the batteries to be ready to drive when the road is clear

I have already happened in winter to have to make a lot of unexpected detours when there is snow, both in Besançon and in Charente ... especially in Charente when there is snow everyone is blocked is it's like me who are not afraid who help out

in the snow you drive slowly, no need for a lot of power: a small generator set insufficient to make normal power would be enough to roll when the battery is completely empty

I wonder if the market of the generator set for electric car would not be better than for domestic cogeneration?

[I Citro]

I wonder if the market for the generator set for electric car would not be better than for domestic cogeneration?

Ask nlc which is in full reflection on the question in order to cross France in Tesla S for its next holidays, ie before the network to supercharger (recharging in 20 minutes to reach the next terminal 200 or 300km further on the highway) is not put into service.
The post-equipment in range extender is not foreseen by the manufacturers which leaves the field free to "Geo Trouvetou" of all kinds.

2 important constraints are to be taken into account:
- 1 / Electric vehicles are not approved to tow, so there are no trailer attachments approved for these vehicles, even if there are alternative manufacturers, which are rather intended to mount bike carriers, or trunks hitch ...
-2 / There is therefore only the solution of the coupling box or the roof box which are all limited to 70kg of maximum load ...

It therefore becomes difficult to accommodate a 20 kW generator with such a low weight ...

[chatelot16]

especially not 20kW ... rather 2kW electric and 6kW thermal

a Chinese inverter generator weighs 20kg a conventional generator group weighs 40kg

the inverter model can be put on the roof ... the problem is air cooling ... to take advantage of the heat it also takes advantage of noise and odors ... remember 2cv and GS

for comfortable and silent heating you need a water-cooled motor: there is work

why no trailer? it is not because the first electric car cannot have a trailer that it is prohibited for the other models

for the electric car to have a future it will be necessary to make real cars, and the trailer is an essential quality for a real car

It is still a shame that for diesel locomotive we quickly saw the advantage of electric transmission, and that electric cars have less right to pull a trailer than cars with gearbox!

your remark makes me come down to the sad reality, you should not do something adaptable to the current pigsty: you have to do everything! the whole car