Solar: Jean Luc Perrier, solar hydrogen production

[Christophe]

when I say that hydrogen does not have a good yield, I am talking above all about the hydrogen SECTOR.

I do not remember if Perrier generated H2 by electrolysis or thermolysis ... If it is the 2nd solution, the efficiency of H2 improves a little ... but it will never be as high as that electrochemical battery storage.

But what must be considered in an eco-balance sheet is the lifespan: a heat pump and a storage of H2 (except compressor and some seals or valve) do not wear out... a battery if ...

Also I think that the production balance (materials, CO2 and gray energy) is also favorable to H2: you probably need "less gray" to store 1 kWh via H2 than battery ...

The worst detractors claim that a battery-powered EV is never profitable on CO2 over its full life cycle VS thermal. In some countries such as Germany and China with grid electricity mainly coal, this is probably true!

What if the future was for battery + H2 hybridization?

We would use the H2 / PAC to assist the battery for power peaks and thus save the life of the battery (on the cycle and on the total life)

[Ahmed]

For the moment, in Auxerre, where they left in a hydrogenated "top delirium", it is already the case: the first H2 buses were circulating before the station was in service, since batteries then provided the propulsion. It is still a "cheese and dessert" solution that is particularly costly in terms of resources!

[Christophe]

Source?

[Ahmed]

Your question could be a play on words ... The source of H2 is water, but above all (electric) current!
You can find all the useful information in the "auxerrois magazine", the official body which distills (sic!) This propaganda, and which can be found online ...
They are so deeply in the "thing" that a management company of social buildings is considering "stationary" uses for heating their homes: berserk, I tell you! Heating with hydrogen is really nonsense ...

[Remundo]

But what must be considered in an eco-balance sheet is the lifespan: a heat pump and a storage of H2 (except compressor and some seals or valve) do not wear out... a battery if ...

I doubt a little that a PAC does not wear out ... the proton membrane is a fairly sensitive "thing". As for H2 storage, if the tank does not wear out, it nevertheless lets H2 escape in small quantities because H2 is nature's smallest molecule.

So if you like, I'm not an ideological H2 blocker, but I'm amazed at the candor about it, and the lack of serious biofuel development.

There may be interesting niches for H2: for example, using excess solar energy in summer to store it and cogenerate electricity + heat in winter.

Also I think that the production balance (materials, CO2 and gray energy) is also favorable to H2: you probably need "less gray" to store 1 kWh via H2 than battery ...

I'm not convinced intuitively, because of the H2 leaks and the compression or liquefaction energy: you can look at Ulf Bossel's balance sheet, this is where the H2 sector is energetically shrunken.

What if the future was for battery + H2 hybridization?

it is technically feasible, maybe a niche market with captive fleets, but the liquid biofuel + battery sector seems to me the most realistic.

[Remundo]

Totally agree! Viewing things in isolation completely mischaracterizes the perspective and only the big picture is relevant.
I am much less so on the slogan at the bottom of your illustration; I would modify it as follows: "People don't need hydrogen. They need motion, but motion give emotions ...".

what meant Bossel by this powerful sentence, it is because indeed, we need MOVEMENT (in clear mechanical energy) and that stubbornly bothering yourself with catastrophic hydrogen performance in this area is stupid.

to have mechanical energy, we must first find abundant resources, easy to handle / transport and of correct yield. On these 3 points, H2 is deplorable:
* H2 does not exist naturally on Earth
* H2 leaks in a gaseous state, needs to be liquefied or hypercompressed
* H2 is energy intensive

A stationary thermal engine is capable of converting 40% of the thermal energy of a biofuel, which can be abundant as long as we want to collect organic waste of all kinds and transform them.

We could consider not storing H2 and recombining it to make it more useful things: for example CO2 + 2H2 => CH3OH which is the synthesis of methanol.

Producing H2 while capturing CO2 from a factory gives fuel.

Methanol can be incorporated into gasoline, like its big brother ethanol.

[Christophe]

and the lack of serious development of biofuels

Uh E85, E10 and B7 and B10 does that mean anything to you?

In France alone, that makes a few Olympic swimming pools in volumes of biofuels sold per year ...

[Christophe]

but the liquid biofuel + battery sector seems to me to be the most realistic.

Yes except that that already exists: you drive well with your E85 electric hybrid every day, don't you?

[Remundo]

yes I have been doing it happily for almost 5 years

but from there to think that I am a sector, that flatters my ego!

I'm waiting for the State and the Builders to stop making fun of us ... like others!

[Remundo]

and the lack of serious development of biofuels

Uh E85, E10 and B7 and B10 does that mean anything to you?

In France alone, that makes a few Olympic swimming pools in volumes of biofuels sold per year ...

for me a real serious development of biofuels, it is MAJORITY of biofuel and MINORITY of fossil fuels.

E5, E10, B7, B10 = interesting fantasy

E85, ED95, B100: it's serious.

thermolysis of organic waste, syngas then synthetic fuels: it is even more serious. Because we cannot mobilize only agricultural land for biofuels. It is necessary for this to use organic waste of all types.