Performance and efficiency of a solar thermal system

Solar thermal energy in all its forms: solar heating, hot water, choosing a solar collector, solar concentration, ovens and solar cookers, solar energy storage by heat buffer, solar pool, air conditioning and solar cold ..
Aid, counseling, fixtures and examples of achievements ...
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Cuicui
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by Cuicui » 25/12/07, 13:46

Chatham wrote: it is useless to be able to heat 30 ° since the water must be at 60 ° mini to kill the legionella bacteria ...

It's been 25 years since the temperature of my balloon does not exceed 50 °. Is it not long since I should have died of legionellosis, especially since the water is not chlorinated? The bacteriological quality of the water has been checked several times (scouts camped on our land). Maybe the water renewals are fast enough to prevent these bacteria from growing?
Here is a first draft of my installation (under Dia)
Image
Of course, in operation, the sensor valves are always open.
The safety valves and expansion vessels are only useful if the sensors are under pressure in summer (better efficiency). The valve of the manual bleeder and that of the coolant tank are then closed. They are open in "automatic drain" mode.
The circulator next to the chimney is optional, this circuit functioning in thermosyphon. For safety reasons, no valve isolates the recuperator from the chimney. The non-return valve prevents the sensors from heating the chimney. It requires a well-adapted and well-installed model to avoid the thermosiphon. Radiators (rarely used) are connected to the same circuit as the DHW. It would have been more logical to connect them to that of the pool, but it would have been too complicated given the configuration of the premises (the machine room begins to look like a submarine ...)
You were right, Christophe, Dia is a small precise and practical software, well in the logic of Ubuntu. Lacks the "flip" function and the possibility of moving the whole diagram when all the objects are grouped (must be copied and pasted on another file). But I haven't explored or understood everything yet. Too bad the user manual is not in French.
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by Cuicui » 27/12/07, 15:27

I was told that I had not drawn the cold water into the balloon. That's done.
Image
To move objects grouped with Dia, it is necessary to click not on any point of the image, but on one of the objects.
Dia reminds me Geodraw of Geoworks Ensemble. Files occupy very little space.
Lacks more than the "rotate object" function and the ability to deform a group of objects.
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by Christophe » 27/12/07, 16:05

Cuicui wrote:Lacks more than the "rotate object" function and the ability to deform a group of objects.


+ 1 I did not really understand pkoi the function was not available : Cry:
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Cuicui
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by Cuicui » 27/12/07, 16:12

Christophe wrote:
Cuicui wrote:Lacks more than the "rotate object" function and the ability to deform a group of objects.
+ 1 I did not really understand pkoi the function was not available : Cry:

I hope that will appear on future releases. These free software are constantly evolving.
In any case, thank you for telling me Dia who is actually very practical.
I'm also trying to tame MicôSystem right now, but I'm paddling ...
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by keke » 15/10/09, 23:08

Hi,

an example of realization: http://solaire.open-dream.org

cordially
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phil53
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by phil53 » 16/10/09, 09:40

Christophe, why do you say that vacuum sensors have a limited life?
The only part that can get old by breakage is gas.
Would there be a limited number of cycles?
It is enclosed in copper brazed, leaks are almost nonexistent. In 20 it should not come out much.
The vacuum tube is heat set, apart from shocks, there is no reason for it to move.
But of course it would be better to be able to make storage as on the other discussion on palm oil
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keke
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by keke » 16/10/09, 12:25

Hello,

if I can afford it, the glass is not completely waterproof, the gases pass through it (the smaller the molecules, the more sensitive the effect, the hydrogen, the helium go through practically everything), certainly slowly, but surely , I worked in the field of vacuum and can tell you that it even goes through the stainless steel.

I took care of the installation of 1000 m2 evacuated sensors (technical term for vacuum), there are twenty years, there is no one left today.

Even if the technique evolved in 20 years, the vacuum is extremely difficult to maintain, the heat being in addition an aggravating factor.

Finally, in terms of performance, unless you have specific needs, such as milk sterilization, sterilization, so in industrial settings, I see no need to pay more expensive sensors that will not have not the expected yield supplement for domestic use. Integrate the financial element into your calculations, how many m2 conventional sensor you can install in addition, and in the end (because that's what interests us), what is the energy balance at equal price.

That said, everyone is master of his destiny ...
To read.
Also read
Live thermal solar measurements

cordially
Keke
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by Christophe » 16/10/09, 12:36

Kéké wrote:an example of realization: http://solaire.open-dream.org


Interesting but it lacks details on the actual achievement ...

What do you use as material for long-term monitoring?

And for solar incidence, how is it measured? Do you have a pyranometer? : Shock:
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by Christophe » 16/10/09, 12:40

phil53 wrote:Christophe, why do you say that vacuum sensors have a limited life?


I think Keke responded quite clearly and more precisely than I could say. Now, kéké, a vacuum sensor without vacuum, it still works? Just a little less well ...

What is more annoying is the (non) management of overheating ... and the vacuum sensor is less resistant than a plan ...

To put it simply: it must be remembered that sustainability (thus profitability) is in simplicity! And as another example, take heat pumps ... sold as stuff supposedly "for the planet" ...

I think there is not much heat pump installed in the 80 years that are still running ...

ps: we have a topic about the difference between 2 types of solar collectors https://www.econologie.com/forums/choisir-de ... t4998.html
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by keke » 16/10/09, 14:49

a vacuum sensor without vacuum, it still works? Just a little less well


actually, it still works, beaucoup less well because

- not isolated on its backside
- it has an "optical aperture" less good than a plane
these two problems being compensated by the vacuum insulation in normal time.

But I insist on the difference in price at m2, which allows a larger area to equal budget. If it is accepted that the efficiency is similar (the measurements made are even in favor of the selective planar sensors), the difference in cost allows the installation of a system whose final power is higher, at domestic temperature of use, I insist on this point, because if it is good for his ego to see his sensors rise to + 60 ° C, it is strictly useless in a context ECS + heating supplement. At high temperature the vacuum sensors are indeed irreplaceable. It is important I think to put the debate back in the low temperature context.

I think there are not many heat pumps installed in the 80 years that are still running

yes, but with what performance, your old 20 fridge is still running, in general we even observe that it runs constantly ;-)

cordially
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