The right of a moron to think otherwise

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Janic
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by Janic » 21/07/18, 09:16

1) my father did the same sort of thing as you: calling his daughter a "prostitute" [*], since that's the exact word, pretending to use the etymological meaning. For him it was a natural observation which had no more important consequences than that. Likewise, he will not hesitate several times to qualify me as "abnormal" to his audience. Some words have consequences that can be painful.

[*] http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/prostitution
I understand your pain with this image of the carnal father which refers to the spiritual father where we would supposedly be in his image! Yuck if it was! : Cry: : Evil:
so I am willing to replace the notion of infidelity with something more neutral like ... the automobile.
You have, according to you, been raised in Protestantism! So in this parallel, this parable, Protestantism being one automobile among all the others. Suppose that dad, mom had a Volvo station wagon (or chose the make, the model you want, whatever) As a child the faults of this vehicle are not your concern, but become an adult and because dad, mom you passed on this vehicle with its many KM on the meter, you realize that it is not tip, top, that it is cumbersome that the mechanic is expensive (yes!) and you (the you, being , I, he, us, obviously) decides to change it to one more suited to your current situation and you (the, it etc…) decides to take a vroummm, vromm, second-hand obviously and who eats a packet of gasoline, insurance, garage owner too and after a while, you settle down and change again for a more reasonable vehicle, could receive the brats you just made, for a 4x4, which eats 'petrol, which pollutes, which costs dearly in insurance ... and in garage.
So instead of the term cuckold you trade it for disappointment, dissatisfaction, for not having found the right thing that does not pollute, that costs little in the garage and, oh miracle, you find the vehicle of your dreams , the fully electric K, battery or battery, which does not pollute, which costs almost nothing in maintenance, which benefits from premiums on the purchase, etc ... and there it is the absolute footing and the others become responsible for all the evils of humanity, CO2, fossil fuels, (well, it is true that "nuclear" electricity is needed to make hydrogen with hydrocarbons, or that batteries are expensive, with rare metals that children extract with their fragile little hands, etc ... but whatever !!!!)
Is that better for you ?! In reality, it is only car for car, not a solution to the displacement that our elders made on horseback, on donkey or on foot. So say from there that Judaism, Chris ... well, the old modes of transport are yuck, poop, because they had no abs, cruise control or alloy rims, or battery hydrogen is of course a point of view, but of what value when we compare things that are not comparable?
2) Are you saying that considering monotheistic religions as a scam has something to do with it? great good do you! in this case it is that you consider yourself targeted and you may have to observe that you are not as impartial as you say.

You're the one talking about scam, not me! I am the author of two books on defaults Christianities as religious systems, because I have the advantage of having NO RELIGIOUS CULTURE inherited from my parents and therefore I have nothing to defend, but I live in a society that has been marked by its time and its mores with some successes and some inevitable failures depending on the means available, the dominant or dominated position, etc.
All système is open to criticism since it depends on those who developed it, and this is where the problem arises and where form and substance merge. The automobile can be criticized for its design flaws (but who would do better?) And especially for its realization as a means adapted to the times we live in and therefore the context that I constantly evoke, because this aspect did not exist not at the start of the current era and wanting to judge one against the other is futile and useless. (in 2.000 years our concepts will be considered archaic whereas today we consider this to be the ultimate, especially in technology,) but on a human level it is regressing rather.
3) when I call myself a "moron" there is a hidden side. This moron, even if he does not have much weight, has the chance to work with people much more qualified while touching the same fields. By calling myself a "moron" I mean my position, say social, with a bad gift (and little courage) to learn by heart subjects that do not interest me or, again, to submit. In short, instead of "moron", deliberately provocative, I could have used "dunce" with the obvious risk that it will serve me. Crétin is in a sense more discreet
I also used a provocative term of cuckold and that made you react, it's all the better as I react also on the term scam, unsuitable for the situation.
However, it is true that systems are like humans, they are attractive when they are new, beautiful, and over time they age take wrinkles, have rheumatism, become deaf or bedridden, this is why it is necessary to renew the stock in fresher items, but without experience, without ripening like a cheese or a wine, because you can't have your cake and eat it too. Old age like youth are not scams but stages of life as of history and it is the same for religions, medicine or politics (see what is happening now!)
PS: I'm in the US right now so I'll have the last word
And as I am in France, at this moment I also have the last word! :D
Humor is better than vanity. : Cheesy:
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by eclectron » 21/07/18, 10:19

hello janic,
Janic wrote:I am the author of two books on defaults of Christianities as religious systems


Ah, so you're particularly interested in the question, secretive! :)

Collating (and probably reflecting) all these faults has led you to reject any organized religion?

Did your quest ultimately lead you to:
- the one who searches in you, is the key to all the problems?
- the (psychological) death of what arises as a researcher in itself, was the only salvation?
- everything was just an escape from this initial problem or a pretext to reactivate the initial problem hidden?
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by Janic » 21/07/18, 12:30

hello janic,
janic wrote: I am the author of two books on the flaws of Christianity as systems religious

Ah, so you're particularly interested in the question, secretive!

Interested in what makes up our society? Obviously! Our role as humans is to try to better understand this environment in which we live and to accept or reject certain aspects of it.
Collating (and probably reflecting) all these faults has led you to reject any organized religion?

Religions are cultural supports like everything that makes up our society and therefore it is like asking whether to reject actions like those of mothers theresa or stone abbots or more formerly francois of assisi (all catholic) or actions like the Inquisition. (equally Catholic)
Did your quest ultimately lead you to:
- the one who searches in you, is the key to all the problems?

I am pragmatic and the side that searches in itself, it's not my thing.
- the (psychological) death of what arises as a researcher in itself, was the only salvation?

Idem
- was everything just an escape from this initial problem or a pretext for reactivating the initial problem concealed?

Kif, kif!
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by eclectron » 21/07/18, 14:05

Janic wrote:
Did your quest ultimately lead you to:
- the one who searches in you, is the key to all the problems?

I am pragmatic and the side that searches in itself, it's not my thing.
- the (psychological) death of what arises as a researcher in itself, was the only salvation?

Idem
- was everything just an escape from this initial problem or a pretext for reactivating the initial problem concealed?

Kif, kif!

Ah Ok, interested but superficially, this is what seemed to me at the start.
I'm not making a value judgment, I'm just describing the facts. I too am very very pragmatic, I want my research to succeed.
I recognize that going deep down, to the root of oneself is unnatural, and arduous, the proof being that it's been a pair of years that I have been turning around! :)
So you are not attached to a religion but attached to a mode of operation centered on the ego (this is what remains conformist) since not calling it into question:
the side that looks within, it's not my thing.


It is true that if we go to the bottom of the thing, there must not be much to say, to quibble, to make books, it does not seem interesting, the circle is complete, it is probably which makes me miss my personal exploration in depth, the known is so reassuring.

A+
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by Janic » 21/07/18, 14:44

Ah Ok, interested but superficially, this is what seemed to me at the start.
Superficially? When someone is hungry, even if it is superficial, it is more important to bring them real food than an abstract philosophical or metaphysical dimension.
I'm not making a value judgment, I'm just describing the facts. I too am very very pragmatic, I want my research to succeed.
I recognize that going deep down, to the root of oneself is unnatural, and arduous, the proof being that it's been a pair of years that I have been turning around!
And you did not leave the hostel, but good exploration!
So not you are not attached to a religion but attached to a mode of operation
I am interested in the functioning of what concerns me.
If you have an automobile or even this computer with which you, I, play toy; it is when these break down and prevent you from using them that you feel concerned, not the neighbor or another at the end of the world. Yes, the ego dominates us
centered on the ego (this is what remains conformist) since not calling it into question:
so the ego? ! Without ego, neither you nor I would exist. It all depends on its size!
the side that looks within, it's not my thing.
It is true that if we go to the bottom of the thing, there must not be much to say, to quibble, to make books, it does not seem interesting, the circle is complete, it is probably which makes me miss my personal exploration in depth, the known is so reassuring.
Of course it is reassuring in a way. It's like the ground on which we live, walk, run because it's safer than diving in deep water, climbing up a mountain or jumping into the void… when we don't have the physical, psychological skills to do so.
But to refuse to allow oneself to be poisoned too much by chemicals, by vaccine poisons, by adulterated food, and to be in some way a whistleblower, is already to be unconventional while being pragmatic and it is already a job in itself. And since I only have one physical life (at least?), I manage with the best. And my ego extends to my very closest, my closest, my least close and possibly not close at all when it interests them, obviously not the others! : Cheesy:
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by eclectron » 21/07/18, 16:44

@Janic
We agree except that I think possible a transcendence of the ego and you, either you think impossible, or it doesn't interest you, if I sum up well?

This single point of divergence between us is major because it leads to a radically different human functioning (bookish knowledge therefore of little value but good ... and felt with the tip of my nose ... we advance as we can :) )
In fact, at this moment, we are both well with an ego that I would describe as sick, disproportionate, unconscious, child.
It is not entirely our fault, we were trained for this by our ancestors, the ancestors of our ancestors ....
As an adult, today we are responsible for our life, for this mode of functioning which leads to the society we have.
Stop or again? : Lol:
I'll keep you posted if I get there in practice and if I don't forget and if you're still on it forum and if.... :)

PS: Yes we can have unconventional interests, an unconventional vision, while having a very present ego. It is for me the sign that the egoic functioning begins to take water.

On the other hand I do not understand your motivation, if you can express it, to be interested in religion (to link) while remaining camped on an egotistical mode (separation) assumed?
Do you see the contradiction?
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by Janic » 21/07/18, 18:40

Janic
We agree except that I believe a transcendence of the ego is possible and you, either you believe it impossible, or it doesn't interest you, if I summarize well?
not at all! some believe that with a multitude of efforts on himself, he will succeed and why not. Others believe that it comes under grace, apart from personal effort. If the result is the same, both are good to take.
This single point of divergence between us is major because it leads to a radically different human functioning (bookish knowledge therefore of little value but good ... and felt with the tip of my nose ... we advance as we can
In fact, at this moment, we are both well with an ego that I would describe as sick, disproportionate, unconscious, child.
It is not entirely our fault, we were trained for this by our ancestors, the ancestors of our ancestors ....
As an adult, today we are responsible for our life, for this mode of functioning which leads to the society we have.
Stop or again?
It's just ! But a bookish knowledge which stops there, is of no use. Suppose it is a cookbook, the images can make your mouth water with desire, but it is what will be on the plate that counts and not everyone is good at cooking or gardening which, however, some flourish. their own thing and for others it will be elsewhere, book or not.
Besides, can we cook without a cookbook? Fortunately! But dietetics (for those who believe in it) that can be learned and is used to avoid dietary errors and their effects on the health of individuals. THE book is for that!
I'll keep you posted if I get there in practice and if I don't forget and if you're still on it forum and if....
No one knows anything in advance!
PS: Yes we can have unconventional interests, an unconventional vision, while having a very present ego. It is for me the sign that the egoic functioning begins to take water.
When the ego disappears, it is also the personality which disappears and transforms us into clones…; that some would like to see come true… soon. It is also this ego that keeps living things alive (Darwinian selection).
By cons I do not understand your motivation, if you can express it, to be interested in religion (link)
Do you see the contradiction?
I am not interested in religion, but in human nature whether through this channel or another. My interest, not for "religion" but for this particular work, which is this bible .; This is due to an incident along the way when the subject did not interest me at all, and even the opposite. Besides the word religion (translated by following in Latin) actually means practical, not theory, nor grouping of individuals in churches. (Assemblies :) which is not religious! we say the national assembly not the national church! 8)
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by eclectron » 21/07/18, 19:32

Ok I'm going to stop, this register of quibbling and ego chicane doesn't interest me, especially in spirituality.
moreover, there is no need to come back to points that have already been seen, as you do.
We do not cooperate so this exchange is useless.
cdlt
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by Janic » 21/07/18, 20:48

Ok I'm going to stop, this register of quibbling and ego chicane doesn't interest me, especially in spirituality.
It's funny, if in a debate, one or the other does not find an adhesion to his speech, it is that it is quibbling and chicane, as for spirituality maybe you give you the wrong idea !?
moreover, there is no need to come back to points that have already been seen, as you do.
you may not have noticed, but it was you who asked questions and as I am polite, kind, and with a huge ego, I answered you from MY point of view, not yours which looks only at you.
We do not cooperate so this exchange is useless.
It is your choice and as I am for the freedom of choice, of belief, and that I have no intention of adhering to a speech that does not correspond to me: do as you wish!
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Re: The right of a moron to think otherwise




by eclectron » 21/07/18, 21:55

I would not make the point not know your answer 18h40, it tires me in advance because I realized that it is useless.
I do not ask you to be of my opinion, I already know that you have not been from the beginning and it does not bother me at all.

I thought that we could move forward, progress together in a common exploration, but obviously that doesn't interest you, that's not what motivates you.
what motivates you is to be right in your bubble.

as Orpheus said: can be a little deaf?

Yes you quibble over uninteresting co..ies, take a look at Wikipedia to look at the etymology of the word religion, I stop there, the list of points to take up would be too long and that's what I didn't want to do .

What bothers me is the irrelevant, dishonesty, you say one thing and then support the opposite, the fact that you take back to your account as something new, something I just said before, it shows your not listening or not integrating the discourse of the other.
Whether we agree or not is not important for me but to progress in an exploration, it is necessary to listen to the other one.
I'm wasting my time, not interesting, final point about myself.
Glad to have known you on the side of spirituality. : Wink:
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