The big lie of Christmas

[sen-no-sen]

In this case, a lawsuit should be brought against the little mouse, the wolf, or I don't know what a bogeyman!

The Christmas lie does not lie in the myth that it inspires, but in the alienating recovery that is made by the totalitarian economic system.
The only purpose of it is to create insatiable new consumer needs, new dreams, to boost economic growth again and again.
In this sense, Christmas has once again become a real dreamlike race towards metaphysics, his messiah this time being a simple indicator of growth ...!

[Janic]

Armand hello

Christmas and his father is indeed a "deception", but a deception whose reason is "good"socially and humanly speaking, the victims being the children ....

Indeed it is a deception, there are many victims (but it does not matter since they are only children, is that it?) When to be good, it is a personal appreciation!

If we deplore the deception of Santa Claus, what about the deception of the dominant religious cult which recovered this date to expose its artifices, what to think of a cult which leads to believe that a type can walk on water , resuscitate from death, which causes permanent guilt and morbid contrition?

A lie cannot serve as a credit for another lie, except who to trust?

[ARMAND]

"(but it does not matter since they are only children, it is that?)" No, precisely, normally that is deduced from the continuation of my remarks but it is advisable to take the word victim with a playful tone specific to the party, is going to add "" to the word victim, that will be more meaningful ... it is not necessary to feel attacked at all times!

"
when to be good, it is a personal appreciation! ": You undoubtedly prefer the whipping father to please your children? ...

"A lie cannot be used as credit for another lie except who can you trust?" I didn't quite understand the meaning of this statement, sorry ...


Regarding my own experience, I shamelessly used the character of Santa Claus to (please) my children, I was more than circumspect with regard to the worship which worships an instrument of torture and a species living dead ...

[Obamot]

It is a delicate problem to solve, if one has the concern of "seeking truth" ... when one is de facto faced with an allegory.

You can't just have a binary vision. For my part, I said to the kids just this:
- "There are some who think that ..."
- "But my personal opinion is that we have to look further"!

And that delighted them, because of course, kids love metaphorical "tales" ... This one smacks of recovery: so "lie"?

What we could say in the answers, goes well beyond the scope of this thread! Because it would be well to go back further, and if we touch on the "religious" subject (Jesus), isn't it interesting to see what other cults think of Christian worship:
- see these interviews from the beginning until 10:33 (after that stinks of proselytism, but in the beginning, there are interesting reflections.) >>> (drop the allegory if you like, but the answers to the question at the start are worth a look).
- see this too >>> (4 parts)
- again this >>>
- symbolic of the cross >>> it is well explained there that "the expectations of today are not those of the time"... balance he said,"ill being"VS"well-being", we even join health issues!
- Jesus & Buddha >>>
- Christmas is a symbol of peace, it's a kind of truce, we find this quest again here >>>

And obviously, when we see these different interpretations, we project ourselves into these accounts to compare them to our own "understanding". We are in subjectivity, maybe it is a mistake, since we should put some distance with our own "perception filters"inherited from our upbringing and our own culture! Except to think that we ourselves hold the" truth "! Even among atheists, all of society is imbued with religion, do those who claim to be atheists hold the" truth "? Whether we like it or not and in all cultures no doubt, we live in impregnated universes ... Impregnated with a search for "something" which must tend towards an ideal of life, towards answers to the metaphysical equation. Ideal which is not "perfect" as long as it does not include the others (which is therefore not ideal) It is complicated! How to tell the other that one does not share his point of sight without him feeling offended? We will then make conciliatory, polite remarks, which will not necessarily reflect everything we think ... Seeking - in a way a form of reconciliation between cultures - is that " lie "for all that? Or is it the dogmatic point of view which is a lie, since it is hardly applicable to all without being imposed. on the will of this or that group!?!?

I associate myself with the fact that Christmas is nothing other than what we want to make of it! But that said, the questions raised by this thread deserve to be asked: they shake up and upset our conception of "how to live together". And cannot be solved simply by a binary vision of the problem: "lie"VS"truthChristmas also reveals how people project themselves in their way of seeing Christmas and envisioning a certain social bond. It also allows in an initially virtual situation, to see how people react to it.

Of what is lie VS truth. Perhaps the wisest thing is not to decide!?! The question may be: where is the need?

[Janic]

when to be good, it is a personal appreciation! ":

You probably prefer the whipping father to please your children? ...

A blind eye of the left eye to exchange for a blind eye of the right eye, it makes little difference!

"A lie cannot be used as credit for another lie except who can you trust?" I didn't quite understand the meaning of this statement, sorry ...

You compare two examples: the first is a lie, the second is too, so who to trust in terms of non-lies?

Regarding my own experience, I shamelessly used the character of Santa Claus to (please) my children,

as many people who do the same since it is passed in culture as the national holiday. But the second does not have to lie to give itself any credibility. On the other hand, nothing prevented you from offering to your children without having recourse to lies which add nothing in terms of emotional relationship.

.I have been more than cautious with regard to the cult which worships an instrument of torture and a kind of living death ...

except that the two are linked by this same culture.

[Janic]

Obamot hello

Of what is lie VS truth. Perhaps the wisest thing is not to decide.

truth is like death, you can try to put it off for as late as possible, but it ends up happening anyway. Who said: "Truth Never Triumphs, But Its Opponents Always Die"? someone else was saying:"the truth is like a diamond: the more you drag it in the sawdust, the more it bursts out of a thousand lights"

The question may be: where is the need?

Precisely: where and when can there be a need to lie?

No matter how interesting your thinking about beliefs or not; I did not ask the question on a theological or cultural level (Noel is only a backdrop, with no real importance concerning the question, it is just in the current news) but: can we lie to his children, without risking his return in full face? it's just a parent-child relationship issue here. It is therefore more a question of psychoanalysis!

[Obamot]

Obamot hello

Of what is lie VS truth. Perhaps the wisest thing is not to decide.

truth is like death, you can try to put it off for as late as possible, but it ends up happening anyway. Who said: "Truth Never Triumphs, But Its Opponents Always Die"? someone else was saying:"the truth is like a diamond: the more you drag it in the sawdust, the more it bursts out of a thousand lights"

If you want, at my modest level I think the dilemma lies in the intention, not in action.
If, for example, you educate your kids in what you call "the truth", how can you motivate them without talking to them about our common goal? Hard, hard ... the "reality"... On the other hand they will be very sensitive to the intention which will be put in what will be said to them, in the way of their education ... The important thing is that they have something "recognizable" on which to base themselves => it is up to them to determine what is the truth, by themselves, and there Christmas can serve as a test. Compared to that, it can raise a critical debate in them. Is this a bad thing?

On the other hand, question for the bac (?):
— "try to make people understand"without cross " allows it to raise consciousness to the plane of discernment(?) "

... as long as it is more important than the "lie"VS"truth"since it should allow a priori to recognize and / or one or the other ... And also to see that one is sometimes taken for the other and vice versa. In short, to get there with binary logic, I don't really believe in it, although ... it depends ... It is difficult to decide. The trials of life can help ...

Of what is lie VS truth. Perhaps the wisest thing is not to decide!?!
The question may be: where is the need?

Precisely: where and when can there be a need to lie?

No matter how interesting your thinking about beliefs or not; I did not ask the question on a theological or cultural level (Noel is only a backdrop, with no real importance concerning the question, it is just in the current news) but: can we lie to his children, without risking his return in full face? it's just a parent-child relationship issue here. It is therefore more a question of psychoanalysis!

Yes but that did not answer the question! (initial [green])
If that answers it, then we can possibly understand where is the "need" and therefore why some fanatics go so far as to get screwed with a bomb instead of"hope of eternity". It's not nothing ... There was an article I do not know where (I would have to find it) which explained the mechanism. Perhaps because they are precisely in a binary logic, this is where the shoe pinches ... The lie for some can become truth for others and vice versa, without going to the psychiatric dilemma , we are in the subjective. It becomes serious when in the subjective, the end justifies the means ...
Indeed, Christmas is a kind of "backdrop" (what I called allegory ... virtual ... metaphor ... subjective ...) which will draw its roots in the collective unconscious (for once the expression seems to me to ring true.) for the aspect "psy" it is with each one to determine for himself?

[Janic]

Obamot hello

Quote:
Of what is lie vs truth. Perhaps the wisest thing is not to decide. "

truth is like death, you can try to put it off for as late as possible, but it ends up happening anyway. Who said: "The truth never triumphs, but its adversaries always end up dying"? someone else said: "the truth is like a diamond: the more you drag it in the sawdust, the more it makes it explode with a thousand fires

If you want, at my modest level I think the dilemma is in the intention, not in the action.

There is not one without the other. Among those who intend to commit an irreversible act such as killing, the intention, in legal terms, is not enough to indict and convict a lawbreaker, it is the action that is condemnable.

If, for example, you educate your kids in what you call "the truth", how can you motivate them without talking to them about our common goal? Hard, hard ... "reality" ...

the question of death is omnipresent in life and therefore an inevitable passage which does not have to be hidden, nor to minimize, it is our sentimentality which puts there a veil of supposed modesty (as for sex)
So it is not in this sense that it should be considered. It is not a matter of teaching in a dogmatic way or of theorizing on the subject, which, depending on the age of the child, the child may not be able to understand. Hence the example that parents, the environment and children will set will intuitively and quickly grasp the nuances between the behaviors of adults and their comments in intimacy with the ears of toddlers hanging out there as if by chance.

On the other hand they will be very sensitive to the intention which will be put in what will be said to them, in the path of their education ... The important thing is that they have something "recognizable" on which to base themselves = > it is for them to determine what the truth is, for themselves, and there Christmas can serve as a test. Compared to that, it can raise a critical debate in them. Is this a bad thing?

Yes and no ! We intellectualize certain concepts, the child is above all instinctive and understands all our contradictions well and a critical debate can lead to a rejection of these criticisms. Telling adults that they are liars (usually at the time of adolescent crises when everything that has been repressed comes out) is generally not appreciated by them. But above all it turns into de facto self-justification: " you lied to me (whatever it was) and so I'm just reproducing your pattern of thinking and behavior ". This is the case with the consumption of tobacco or alcohol among certain young people: "why them and not us ?"

... as long as it is more important than the "lie" VS "truth" since it should allow a priori to recognize and / or one or the other ... And also to see that one is sometimes taken for the other and vice versa.

Obviously in some cases this may seem difficult to discern. In reality not, in well-known settings such as the family circle (beyond it would be necessary to master lots of parameters out of our reach more often) Indeed, we often confuse being wrong and lying. Anyone can be wrong it is almost inevitable, but there is no intention of being wrong. The lie is conscious, voluntary, and therefore easily discernible by the person who uses it.

Janic wrote:

Obamot wrote:
Of what is lie VS truth. Perhaps the wisest thing is not to decide!?!
The question may be: where is the need?

Precisely: where and when can there be a need to lie?

No matter how interesting your thinking about beliefs or not; I did not ask the question on a theological or cultural level (Noel is only a backdrop, with no real importance concerning the question, it is just in the current news) but: can we lie to his children, without risking his return in full face? it's just a parent-child relationship issue here. It is therefore more a question of psychoanalysis!

Yes but that did not answer the question! (initial [green])

If that answers it, then we can possibly understand where the "need" is and therefore why some fanatics go so far as to get blown up with a bomb as a "hope for eternity". It's not nothing ... There was an article I do not know where (I would have to find it) which explained the mechanism. Perhaps because they are precisely in a binary logic, this is where the shoe pinches ... The lie for some can become the truth for others and vice versa, without going as far as the psychic dilemma , we are in the subjective. It becomes serious when in the subjective, the end justifies the means ...
Indeed, Christmas is a kind of "backdrop" (what I called allegory ... virtual ... metaphor ... subjective ...) which will draw its roots in the collective unconscious (for once the expression seems to me to ring true.) for the aspect "psy" it is with each one to determine for himself?

This is philosophical discourse! The terrorists are not in the lie, but in deception of those who lied to them. Credulity, need to believe these lies, probably. See the amazed eyes of the parents in front of the windows, the eyes just as amazed when the children unpack the gifts from the world of consumption. These adults regress by remembering their childhood and their joy communicated by these same parents, in a continuous circle or only the current emotion is taken into consideration.
Everyone of these adults is well aware that this magic moment will have to stop and it will be necessary to admit that all this is bogus, that Santa Claus it is the family who paid for these products without worrying about the psychological shock that that can generate (although quickly, thanks to the little friends (as for the sex!), the child understands that it is cinema and that what counts it is the volume of the gifts under the tree or in the sock which matters and why not with increased requirements as a result)
My children and grandchildren rejoice as much (from the beginning) in the gifts they receive from their family and warmly thank them as during birthdays for example. No point (hypocrisy, no lie to the key, it's still healthier! No?

[Obamot]

Disaster!!! Will have to retype your Janic info

"On"So would not have lied to us: two F-18 planes of the C∂n∂dian Armed Forces would have shot down Santa's sleigh >>>

It is not the first time that its hitch would be damaged, here a precedent because of the heat wave:
http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/geneve/story/10888745

Or if you're Santa Claus, you're penard in a cn∂dien hospital? You are better I hope! Do they have WiFi?
Have you met Al∂in G?

[mesvieuxcartons]

I consider lying to be a form of intelligence. When my 5 year old puppy lies to me, I am already satisfied with his strategy but that does not prevent me from explaining to him why he should not lie.
As for Santa Claus, my son has understood that the toys for the tree come from supermarket shelves and that no elf exists.