The paradox of the effect of antibiotics (Lyme)

General scientific debates. Presentations of new technologies (not directly related to renewable energies or biofuels or other themes developed in other sub-sectors) forums).
User avatar
Grelinette
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2007
Registration: 27/08/08, 15:42
Location: Provence
x 272




by Grelinette » 20/12/15, 20:52

Hi,

I was sent the PDF document on Lyme disease.

It seems well documented but it is not a scientific document, therefore to be taken with caution all the more since certain affirmations seem exaggerated (cf. 1st §), even if they are more or less corroborated by information published on the net .

That said, regarding Lyme disease, on the internet you can read a lot of very different and even contradictory hypotheses, some of which have been put forward by researchers and doctors.

The film posted by Christophe also evokes the "peculiarities" of Lyme, which range from the notorious and widespread ignorance of a large part of the medical community, to unreliable tests, including pharmaceutical and public health lobbies (* ) ...

To return to the attached document, mention is made of a so-called very effective alternative medicine: the Silver Light

Who knows this "miracle drug" of alternative medicine, which is, it seems, banned in France!


(*) Several doctors and researchers claim that treatment for Lyme exceeds 21 days of antibiotic treatment, or the legal protocol limits antibiotic treatments to 21 days and doctors who do not respect this protocol can be prosecuted!
0 x
Project of the horse-drawn-hybrid - The project econology
"The search for progress does not exclude the love of tradition"
User avatar
simplino
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 143
Registration: 22/11/15, 18:28




by simplino » 22/12/15, 16:14

Nano particles of diluted silver, poison that kills life, microbes, used in the past, as full of poisonous stuff with mercury, with bismuth, lead, etc., which have become banned with modern advances and new drugs in principle more effective, and awareness of their hidden dangers.
0 x
User avatar
Grelinette
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2007
Registration: 27/08/08, 15:42
Location: Provence
x 272

Re: The paradox of the effect of antibiotics (Lyme)




by Grelinette » 24/04/16, 16:59

Hello,

I reactivate this subject following 2 recent radio broadcasts (April 2016) on France-Inter that have just been reported to me and which take stock of Lyme disease :

1) http://www.reseauborreliose.fr/day/2016/04/21/L-affaire-Lyme-%3A-sur-France-Inter2
2) http://www.franceinter.fr/player/reecouter?play=1274805


I opened this topic because a person close to me was, at the end of 2015, diagnosed as infected with the Borrelia bacterium which causes this disease. A first test (Elisa) confirmed the diagnosis, but a second test (Western-Blot) did not completely confirm Lyme disease. (2 positive values ​​out of 16 tested)

In the end, the infectious disease specialist in charge of the medical file dismisses Lyme disease and hands over to one of his colleagues, a very renowned specialist in internal medicine (an "internist").
We were surprised to hear this specialist declare, at the mere sight of the Elisa and Western-Blot tests contained in the file, as well as the results of other examinations and tests: "if you come for this pseudo-illness, we stop the consultation immediately and you take the door because I have no time to waste with this nonsense"! ... : Shock:

The current situation is therefore as follows:
- on the one hand, high-level specialists (professor of medicine) deny the existence of this disease,
- on the other, other equally qualified specialists alert the public authorities to this epidemic which seems to be taking on alarming proportions (pandemic?).

What to understand from this paradoxical situation? ...
1 x
Project of the horse-drawn-hybrid - The project econology
"The search for progress does not exclude the love of tradition"
User avatar
Philippe Schutt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 1611
Registration: 25/12/05, 18:03
Location: Alsace
x 33

Re: The paradox of the effect of antibiotics (Lyme)




by Philippe Schutt » 25/04/16, 13:26

You do what you want, but fast.
My partner's brother is almost paralyzed in the legs due to this disease, which was undiagnosed for several years
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685

Re: The paradox of the effect of antibiotics (Lyme)




by Did67 » 25/04/16, 15:17

1) Lyme disease exists. My wife met her.

2) The symptoms vary enormously. Hence the difficulty of the diagnosis. They also vary depending on the stage at which the diagnosis is made.

In my wife, who went unnoticed, the sickness resulted in .... accelerations of the heart at night, in full sleep. There followed an antibiotic treatment of horse (I do not remember, but like 21 days by infusion). Who suppressed the symptoms. There remains a nervous fragility, with sometimes, at night, uncontrolled restlessness of the legs (and do not think what a badly turned mind could think!)

3) Like other illnesses, reactions to tests can be furtive. Sometimes the disease is dormant. In other cases, we still have antibodies while we are "cured" (rather, not overwhelmed by symptoms). So a positive reaction doesn't necessarily mean treatment ... It's complicated.

4) As always, in the face of complicated situations, the internet is the realm of "everything or anything". And some doctors do not escape this.

- some deny; have never studied so do not know; but still deny

- the others "invent" the most smoky therapies (there have always been doctors, hungry for notoriety or money or both, who had miracle solutions against cancer or against polyo or AIDS ...)

5) Like teachers or mechanics, there are good and bad doctors. They are above all men. And 7 or 9 years of study do not prevent bullshit. There are Nobel Prize winners who sold their sperm, thereby accrediting the idea that intelligence is hereditary. Others are first class fachos. If intelligence could be acquired by the level of knowledge, that would be known!
1 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79121
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10973

Re: The paradox of the effect of antibiotics (Lyme)




by Christophe » 25/04/16, 15:58

Grelinette wrote:We were surprised to hear this specialist declare, at the mere sight of the Elisa and Western-Blot tests contained in the file, as well as the results of other examinations and tests: "if you come for this pseudo-illness, we stop the consultation immediately and you take the door because I have no time to waste with this nonsense"! ... : Shock:


Is such behavior simply compatible with the oath of Hypocrates? : Shock:
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685

Re: The paradox of the effect of antibiotics (Lyme)




by Did67 » 25/04/16, 22:22

Grelinette wrote:
... hands over to one of his colleagues, a very renowned specialist in internal medicine (an "internist").
We were surprised to hear this specialist declare, at the mere sight of the Elisa and Western-Blot tests contained in the file, as well as the results of other examinations and tests: "if you come for this pseudo-illness, we stop the consultation immediately and you take the door because I have no time to waste with this nonsense"! ... : Shock:



1) Let us not overlook the possibility, a priori, and unless proven otherwise, that it is not impossible that it is not Lyme disease. Maybe that's just what this specialist meant?

2) As I have already written, if the symptoms of Lyme disease are very heterogeneous, we cannot on the contrary exclude the fact that symptoms which make us think of Lyme disease are not ultimately Lyme .

For a disease as simple as malaria, I almost passed it off as a "false negative". Following a serious suspicion, the test for the thick drop (prick the fingertip and squeeze a drop of blood that is looked at under a microscope) had been negative. Normal conclusion, logical but erroneous: it is not the malaria! 8 or 10 days, I was still dragging my weird "flu" and was getting worse and worse. Finally, admission to the Pitié-Salpétrière, tropical disease service, blood sampling by blood test, and there, we realize that it was midnight to 5 ... Medicine is not an absolutely exact science! We find it hard to accept it.

3) As for the way in which certain doctors and specialists express themselves, sometimes annoyed and sometimes rightly by patients who, following fleeting readings of the Internet and its big anything, know better than the doctor what they have, we can regret it. But sometimes also understand.

If you knew the number of times that people wanted to teach me my job from disarming good feelings of naivety and ignorance ... Tired, exhausted even sometimes, I also happened to hang up on people with whom no dialogue was possible. They knew better than me - while ignoring almost everything about the real situation ... But it is certain that to their friends, they must have told that they had come across one of these assholes who knew nothing about it !! !

So sometimes you have to beware!

I say that, but I don't know the situation. So it's all theoretical! Just to avoid too fast runaway and too fast final judgments.

PS: Try to "live" a public medical service from the inside, and you will see under what pressure conditions certain diagnoses are sometimes made. I have the "chance" to know the private agents of the hospital public service, from the nursing aid to the "PH" (hospital practitioner = doctor who has chosen to remain in the public service) through the nurse. So in what stressful and tired situation these people are working today. We all dream of a "top" hospital, serene, where we are welcomed, where we are explained ... But there is no longer the means for that today! [well, very exactly, collectively, politically, the arbitrators are different; the means are elsewhere. In Panama among others].
1 x
User avatar
simplino
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 143
Registration: 22/11/15, 18:28

Re: The paradox of the effect of antibiotics (Lyme)




by simplino » 30/04/16, 17:15

Grelinette wrote:Hello,

I reactivate this subject following 2 recent radio broadcasts (April 2016) on France-Inter that have just been reported to me and which take stock of Lyme disease :

1) http://www.reseauborreliose.fr/day/2016/04/21/L-affaire-Lyme-%3A-sur-France-Inter2
2) http://www.franceinter.fr/player/reecouter?play=1274805


I opened this topic because a person close to me was, at the end of 2015, diagnosed as infected with the Borrelia bacterium which causes this disease. A first test (Elisa) confirmed the diagnosis, but a second test (Western-Blot) did not completely confirm Lyme disease. (2 positive values ​​out of 16 tested)

In the end, the infectious disease specialist in charge of the medical file dismisses Lyme disease and hands over to one of his colleagues, a very renowned specialist in internal medicine (an "internist").
We were surprised to hear this specialist declare, at the mere sight of the Elisa and Western-Blot tests contained in the file, as well as the results of other examinations and tests: "if you come for this pseudo-illness, we stop the consultation immediately and you take the door because I have no time to waste with this nonsense"! ... : Shock:

The current situation is therefore as follows:
- on the one hand, high-level specialists (professor of medicine) deny the existence of this disease,
- on the other, other equally qualified specialists alert the public authorities to this epidemic which seems to be taking on alarming proportions (pandemic?).

What to understand from this paradoxical situation? ...

Go see other specialists and assess for yourself the validity of their answers by learning the knowledge about this disease.
The sick patient must be treated whatever the name of his illness and the response of the great specialist is inadmissible, even criminal, and it is necessary to file a complaint for non-rescue of the patient in danger by trying to record the response even to his without knowing it, even put it on youtube as a hidden camera !!!

Ticks exist, we are all bitten repeatedly, ticks are stuffed with all kinds of bacteria with diseases, and therefore Lyme disease really exists with lots of underdiagnosed patients who more or less resist these bacteria which are walking in their body !!!
0 x
dede2002
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 1111
Registration: 10/10/13, 16:30
Location: Geneva countryside
x 189

Re: The paradox of the effect of antibiotics (Lyme)




by dede2002 » 30/04/16, 18:34

Did67 wrote:...

For a disease as simple as malaria, I almost passed it off as a "false negative". Following a serious suspicion, the test for the thick drop (prick the fingertip and squeeze a drop of blood that is looked at under a microscope) had been negative. Normal conclusion, logical but erroneous: it is not the malaria! 8 or 10 days, I was still dragging my weird "flu" and was getting worse and worse. Finally, admission to the Pitié-Salpétrière, tropical disease service, blood sampling by blood test, and there, we realize that it was midnight to 5 ... Medicine is not an absolutely exact science! We find it hard to accept it.

...


Hi Did67,

Malaria is not a "simple" disease, and it is only during fever flares that it can be detected in the blood. European doctors are not used to it and your case is far from unique. In Africa, on the contrary, doctors almost always prescribe antimalarial drugs at the slightest symptom of "bad flu" ...

For the rest, I totally agree with your writings : Wink:
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685

Re: The paradox of the effect of antibiotics (Lyme)




by Did67 » 01/05/16, 19:01

The "simple" was understood of course in relation to the complexity of the symptoms of Lyme disease ... The symptomatology of malaria is quite simple. The development of a horribly complicated vaccine indeed, due to the lack of stability of paraiste (Plasmodium) - therefore no reliable "signature" ...

There, in this case, the doctor was warned: I went there with the conviction that I had malaria (it was my second, I knew a little what it looked like ...). But it was the "false negative" that complicated things.

I just wanted to say that sometimes it's not easy to make a 100% safe diagnosis! That's all. Then we can demand. You can sue (one of the favorite sports in France - well, the threat of!). We can be right (especially on the internet where even the worst fools are right - follow my gaze towards Mosul).
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Science and Technology"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 144 guests