The evolution of biological species and chance ...

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Janic
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by Janic » 23/11/11, 20:55

and believers are criticized for their naivety and gullibility!
These are not theories as he believes, but innumerable scientific facts with tens of thousands of articles and theses !!
I'm not the one talking about the theory of evolution, I'm just using the expression that, to this day, continues to be used!
Innumerable scientists are planted as much as the others insofar as their role is to find elements confirming their theory and to leave aside what does not harmonize. It is only to see almost unanimity on vaccinations (scientific field if there is one) despite the grains of sand raised by other scientists just as qualified as them.
This site, among others, is characterized precisely by its side grain of sand in the well-oiled machine of scientific "dogmas" such as nuclear power and other sensitive points.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 24/11/11, 02:31

Janic's theological phrase:
We use the word chance like other gods to "explain" the inexplicable

does not correspond to experimental reality, where a dynamic system, like a double pendulum (or our solar system over a few million years), has trajectories in time which change completely by imperceptibly changing the initial conditions varying according to the noise at atomic level !!
This chance is very well explained, with precise, measured laws studied and is not inexplicable, since it is a mathematical property demonstrated in mathematics and rechecked on computer simulations !!

Vaccinations have saved millions of lives, especially for diseases you only catch once.
They made it possible to suppress smallpox, and Pasteur convinced his fierce opponents, especially by the effectiveness of the results, as for example for anthrax, a scourge that we have forgotten, but with vaccination very convincing for the peasants of the 'epoch: unvaccinated enclosure: all dead, and vaccinated enclosure: all alive !!!

The evolution of life by chance is proven by fossils and DNA, a long genetic history more and more scientifically specified!

We mammals, to form the placenta around the fetuses, we always use a very old virus incorporated in our genes, which by chance, a hundred million years ago allowed to form the first placentas, harmful virus become useful by pure chance, and that we continue to use, because it has become essential !!
If we neutralize it, no more births !! (see the beautiful corresponding report on Arte)

So chance exists, not only for meteorite disasters, but also on the effect of viruses, very subject to random genetic changes (which makes vaccinations ineffective), which sometimes permanently change our evolution, as in us allowing to be mammals for tens of millions of years, instead of continuing to lay eggs !!
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Janic
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by Janic » 24/11/11, 09:39

dedeleco hello
This chance is very well explained, with precise, measured laws studied and is not inexplicable, since it is a mathematical property demonstrated in mathematics and rechecked on computer simulations !!

A well explained chance is no longer a chance, it is simply the discovery of laws, non-hazardous, ignored until then.
Vaccinations have saved millions of lives, especially for diseases you only catch once.
They made it possible to suppress smallpox, and Pasteur convinced his fierce opponents, especially by the effectiveness of the results, as for example for anthrax, a scourge that we have forgotten, but with vaccination very convincing for the peasants of the 'epoch: unvaccinated enclosure: all dead, and vaccinated enclosure: all alive !!!

Beautiful repetition of a dogma which does not correspond to any reality on the ground. No vaccination has ever avoided millions of deaths, on the contrary, and for that you only need to consult the official documents of INSERM and the INVS, for France, but the same is true for other countries.
The history of Pasteur is one of the biggest scams of modern times, revealed elsewhere in his time. Pasteur constantly cheated on the figures and on the results, it is enough to consult the figures on the rage of his time compared to his assertions. Contemporary scientists laughed at him saying, " Pastor does not suppress rabies he gives it »Indeed the mortality figures rose sharply as soon as his vaccine was introduced. Read the book "Béchamp ou Pasteur" which underlines with the period documents in support that it was a scam, but which (and this is the only real benefit of vaccines) reassures populations frightened by major epidemics .
For coal with the special one experience of Pouilly le Fort here is what Dr. Eric Ancelet says in " To finish with PASTEUR. A century of scientific mystification »P100
"... the very famous Pouilly le Fort experiment will apparently succeed and consecrate the glory of Pasteur. It is a theatrical demonstration for which we summoned a large audience of doctors, veterinarians and of course the press. Two lots of sheep and cows are made up. One is vaccinated against anthrax, the other is not! Then all the animals are vaccinated with the wild germ. Some time later the first batch survives despite some animals in bad shape, while the second is decimated. It was a brilliant victory ... but the vaccine used owed nothing to Pasteur. It is that of Toussaint improved by Roux and Chamberland narrowly imposed by these loyal collaborators so that the experience is not a fiasco. The big man will lie to the Academy of Sciences claiming that he used SA oxygen aging method and it will pocket the Legion of Honor shortly before Toussaint dies forgotten by all…. We have reported that Toussaint used a chemical adjuvant. These adjuvants of immunity generalized by the pastorian Ramon in 1925 are considered today as essential but dangerous. Indispensable? ... if the germ is rendered harmless (attenuated or killed), we need adjuvants, formidable poisons essential to… protect us? Dangerous? These are toxic chemicals (aluminum, formaldehyde, phenic acid, saponins…) whose action is easy to explain, they modify the interior environment of the vaccinated who becomes refractory to this disease… but receptive to many others (see LC Vincent's electronic measurements). Thus the Pouilly le Fort vaccine, secretly adjuvanted with bichromate of potash and / or carbolic acid, makes the carbon receptive land (reduced and slightly alkaline) pass to an acidic and oxidized land close to that induced by penicillin. It is therefore not surprising that the anthrax bacillus does not develop… for a while. The pastor technique applied elsewhere in the world was a total fiasco. Indeed this does not last because the destabilized ground gradually recovers its initial constants .... hence the multiple reminders that we undergo in order to maintain the biological ground far from that of health, in the zone of depressions, cancers , viruses and degenerative diseases. You only need to look around to see the flourishing health of our contemporaries after 100 years of pasteurism "

But obviously this can only be considered as points of view. So in this case, you have to go to the numbers… whenever you want!
For smallpox, there too it is a vast scam more or less recognized by the WHO which after having supported and recommended mass vaccination (to resounding failure) changed his rifle and recommended isolation outbreaks and only targeted vaccinations (read the official WHO report on the subject)
The evolution of life by chance is proven by fossils and DNA, a long genetic history more and more scientifically specified!
as long as you want to believe it!
We mammals, to form the placenta around the fetuses, we always use a very old virus incorporated in our genes, which by chance, a hundred million years ago allowed to form the first placentas, harmful virus become useful by pure chance, and that we continue to use, because it has become essential !!
If we neutralize it, no more births !! (see the beautiful corresponding report on Arte)

It simply obscures how we went from simple cell division to fetal reproduction, all of a sudden!
So chance exists, not only for meteorite disasters, but also on the effect of viruses, very subject to random genetic changes (which makes vaccinations ineffective), which sometimes permanently change our evolution, as in us allowing to be mammals for tens of millions of years, instead of continuing to lay eggs !!

Just try to imagine this passage! Imagine the birth of an eye or an ear where there was nothing and in addition what are the (quantified) probabilities that it happens!
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 24/11/11, 11:06

A well explained chance is no longer a chance, it is simply the discovery of laws, non-hazardous, ignored until then.

shows a total incomprehension of the laws governing our universe which are all based on random laws on the atomic scale, well explained by quantum mechanics and janic shows a total incapacity to understand them, because we can explain very well by the laws of statistical chance (see Boltzmann), while having well known random laws, such as completely random event individually with collective statistical laws, like the disintegration of an isolated thorium atom, which can occur randomly from second to 11 billion years, individually unpredictable, but with the statistical law of half-life of 11 billion years !!!
The law of the quantum tunnel effect which explains this is well explained but the individual event is random according to this statistical law.

janic has totalitarian certainties completely distorted by his almost religious convictions !!

With his irremovable and impermeable type of incoherent reasoning, he has a false representation of our world, where he only takes what suits him and suits his instincts !!!

janic watch how much we have a religious instinct to believe in a religion, even if it is false, despite the evidence, which explains the difficulty in admitting scientific realities based on experience.

Finally for vaccinations janic also believes what suits him and forgets the rest.
He forgets that men's health has improved so much that our population has exploded, thanks to scientific methods based on facts and not beliefs !!

Happy that Janic did not bring out the belief in the spontaneous generation of the early 1800s, which Pasteur had a lot of trouble convincing his falsity, over an entire generation.
It was so false that we forgot it !!

janic could bring out all the arguments of the time in favor of spontaneous generation, the microbes of Pasteur being according to him
one of the biggest scams of modern times
.
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Cuicui
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by Cuicui » 24/11/11, 13:08

dedeleco wrote:So it's an incredible egocentrism and anti-scientific to believe that the extraterrestrials of another distant star with life can resemble us at this point

The fact that the species appeared suddenly, without intermediate links, pleads in favor of an external intervention (why not the famous "gods" perhaps humanoid of our legends?) Which does not owe much to chance.
Let us not forget that our solar system is a youngster of 5 billion years, while the known universe has 14. During the first 9 billion years, it could do without things!
This obviously does not exclude mutations and the natural selection of living things.
A true scientist accepts to examine all hypotheses without exception, in particular those which seem eccentric at first sight.
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 24/11/11, 13:18

+1 with Cuicui! Some paintings or even cave paintings (I believe) represent UFOs, even ET ... :) as said above: the Sumerians were ultra advanced for their time and there is a "spontaneity" of their appearance, dixit wiki: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sum%C3%A9riens

The appearance of this urban civilization may seem sudden (around the XNUMXth millennium BC with the Uruk period). We do not know where the Sumerians come from, the Sumerian language belonging neither to the group of Semitic languages, nor to that of the Indo-European languages; the famous myth of Abgad (the Seven Wise Men) imputes the first civilization of the country by these new strange immigrants "arrived from the sea ". It is possible that they came from the Indian subcontinent or Asia along the Iranian coast. Other hypotheses would bring them from the north (Asia Minor or Zagros).


dedeleco, to say that they would not resemble us is as presumptuous as to say that they would necessarily resemble us! We don't know !!

The difference between your opinion "they necessarily don't look like us", and mine "it is possible that they look like us" is that I say thatevolution may have followed similar paths if the planetary environment is identical ! What's wrong with this?

Evolution is not pure chance, it is also intelligence (capacity to adapt to its environment) ... I repeat myself because apparently these words are ignored when reading by some ...

2 new photos have been published on the net: https://www.econologie.com/forums/post217191.html#217191

Image

Image
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 24/11/11, 13:27

An extra terrestrial would not have a deformed human mouth with the same list of very visible deformed bones (zero probability) and therefore hoax outright !!!
To attract attention like other past manipulations !!

The fact that the species appeared suddenly, without intermediate links,

is not a proof, does not correspond to reality, especially that the fossils are rare and for example our dogs, so varied in a few centuries, in a few million years, by finding a bizarre fossilized one, will appear as appeared suddenly , by the simple scarcity of fossils.
In addition, research on DNA and genetics shows that random mutations can strongly change the morphology, like an extra leg, etc ...
We find a lot of intermediate fossils (horses, whales, men, etc.) after a very big job of fossil research !!!

So pure religious legends corresponding to our instinctive religious need for explanation, even incoherent !!
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 24/11/11, 13:51

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Christophe
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by Christophe » 24/11/11, 13:59

Completely agree with you on the time scale, I said above ...

dedeleco wrote:An extra terrestrial would not have a deformed human mouth with the same list of very visible deformed bones (zero probability) and therefore hoax outright !!!
To attract attention like other past manipulations !!


It is possible that this is a scheming ... where I do not agree with you is on your "categorism" ...

On what do you base yourself to affirm that it would necessarily be so different ... Ah I know: "the chance"? : Mrgreen:

On this matter, as long as we do not have the results of DNA tests (if they are published one day), we will continue to go around in circles and everyone will remain on their positions since we have to do more to belief and speculation than to science ...

Also I saw in an article that the mummies had been discovered 2 years ago ... why talk about it publicly only now?
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by Christophe » 24/11/11, 14:43

The wiki page you just gave shows this diagram:
Image

Which completely confirms what I say in relation to the adaptation of evolution to its environment !!

If the mutations can come from chance, their survival (= ultimately the evolution) is conditioned by their environment ...

Evolution = adaptation to the environment ... This is no coincidence ...
Last edited by Christophe the 24 / 11 / 11, 14: 55, 1 edited once.
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