Supermassive black hole: 12 Billion solar masses!

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Supermassive black hole: 12 Billion solar masses!




by Christophe » 26/02/15, 13:06

A gigantic and ancient black hole defies scientific theories

The discovery of this supermassive black hole (12 billion times the mass of the Sun) challenges the theories of astrophysics by its record growth, of unexplained rapidity.

Will black hole theory collapse? The discovery of one of these stars, particularly massive but above all rather young compared to the Big Bang, surprises and intrigues the scientific community, after the publication of its characteristics in the journal Nature.

At a distance of 12,8 billion light years from our Earth, this black hole is said to be supermassive since it has a mass 12 billion times greater than that of the Sun in our system. Scientists date its appearance 875 million years after the birth of the Universe, which is only 6% of its age. They named it "SDSS J0100 + 2802".


Learn more about http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/scienc ... DJt8hPM.99

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmSJ1stQcIc
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by sen-no-sen » 26/02/15, 19:51

The black hole theory should give way to that of a rebounding black star, indeed according to the theory of relativity, the center of the black hole should house a singularity of infinite density.
The problem is that infinity is no longer physics but metaphysics!
According to Carlo Rovelli , the supermassive stars would collapse to give black holes if necessary, but unlike current theory, the center of it would create a collapse bubble which would eventually reach a limit after which a rebound would form, which would translate into a massive emission of energy for a few, hundreds or even thousands of billions of years ... the black hole would then become a white fountain.
This idea would validate the idea of ​​a "Big bounce" (big rebound) replacing our "Big Bang"... note that our Universe could according to this theory be located inside a black hole ....
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by Christophe » 26/02/15, 20:05

Oh yes anyway!

I understand the notion that a black hole leads to a white fountain !! : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

For the rest a little less : Mrgreen:
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by sen-no-sen » 27/02/15, 10:35

Christophe wrote:Oh yes anyway!

I understand the notion that a black hole leads to a white fountain !! : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

For the rest a little less : Mrgreen:


: Lol:

: Arrow:
Here : there is no singularity and there never has been. The gravitational well which was formed by the collapse of the massive star concentrates the mass but the density never becomes infinite. A maximum density is reached and this density is the Planck density. In fact, when the star collapses, it happens in a very short time in the star's own time (but which can be very long for an outside observer) that the quantum gravitational pressure (this is how Rovelli calls it) opposes the collapse, which produces a violent rebound. As I said, this would take place in a very short time in the proper time of the star, but as this phenomenon takes place in a very deep gravitational well, beyond the horizon of events, where time is therefore extremely dilated, for the outside observers that we are, this duration seems to us to last (sic) very long, millions or billions of years ...

As the effects of quantum gravity are governed by the energy density and not the size of an object, Rovelli specifies that the "star", which with Francesca Vidotto they call a Planck star (Planck Star) can have anything made to have a dimension greater than the length of Planck.

What is more, as black holes evaporate by Hawking radiation, Italian theorists show that the Planck star, which contains all the information of the black hole, ends up losing a third of its mass by Hawking radiation, leaving a macroscopic residue, with a horizon which then disappears. At this point, the quantum gravitational pressure can then dislocate the residue and the information stored in the black hole escape to infinity.


http://www.ca-se-passe-la-haut.fr/2014/02/etoiles-de-planck-la-fin-des-trous-noirs.html

To summarize: in current theory, based on general relativity *, a black hole will create a gravitational well of infinite depth.
In the theory of quantum gravity, this same well will have a gigantic, but not infinite, depth.
In this case, the collapse does not last, once the maximum threshold is reached, a rebound is created, which means that after a given time the Planck star will stop being dark and become a powerful source of light.


* The infinite density described by relativity is to be compared with the incompatibility between theory of relativity and quantum physics.
The new theory, known as quantum gravity theory, takes into account advances in subatomic physics and allows calculations to be made that are more related to physical reality.
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Re: Supermassive black hole: 12 Billion solar masses!




by Grelinette » 27/02/15, 13:24

At a distance of 12,8 billion light years from our Earth

I find it hard to imagine how we can locate and study phenomena at this distance. : Shock:
... knowing that we are sometimes unable to find an airplane that simply crashed on earth!
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by Christophe » 27/02/15, 13:40

Yes i'm having a hard time too ... past the million light years (before it goes lol ... i laugh eh)

Especially since in this case, it is not far at all from the age of the universe !!
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Re: Supermassive black hole: 12 Billion solar masses!




by sen-no-sen » 28/02/15, 09:53

Grelinette wrote:
At a distance of 12,8 billion light years from our Earth

I find it hard to imagine how we can locate and study phenomena at this distance. : Shock:
... knowing that we are sometimes unable to find an airplane that simply crashed on earth!


Quite simply, in the event of a plane crash, the fragments are hidden from our sight, whereas for stars and other astronomical phenomena it is "enough" to open wide the eyes or the ears of telescopes or radio telescopes.
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Re: Supermassive black hole: 12 Billion solar masses!




by Grelinette » 28/02/15, 10:16

sen-no-sen wrote:
Grelinette wrote:
At a distance of 12,8 billion light years from our Earth

I find it hard to imagine how we can locate and study phenomena at this distance. : Shock:
... knowing that we are sometimes unable to find an airplane that simply crashed on earth!

Quite simply, in the event of a plane crash, the fragments are hidden from our sight, whereas for stars and other astronomical phenomena it is "enough" to open wide the eyes or the ears of telescopes or radio telescopes.

Mouais .... by putting this explanation into perspective by the simple fact that we devote enormously more human, material and financial means to look at the stars (and objects that roam in space) than to locate a crashed plane.

This is another debate, sorry to troll the basic subject a little, but it is a discussion that I often have with an aeronautical engineer specialized in aviation safety (former teacher at Sup'Aero and international speaker) that I have the opportunity to meet a few days a year.

For example, currently the disappearance of the Airbus A320-200 from Air Asia leaves specialists perplexed and unanswered, and this disappearance highlights the relative simplicity of making an airplane voluntarily disappear from all our radars.

Conversely, we are able to fix a tiny transponder on the fins of sharks to locate them for months, almost across all seas and oceans, and in real time by satellites! ... And not to mention current systems allowing to locate to the nearest meter, and always in real time, all the bolts and washers of a few cm (hundreds of thousands) that travel above our stratosphere!

In short ... "12,8 billion light years from our Earth" is still quite far from the eyes, and much further than the floor of the cows!
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Re: Supermassive black hole: 12 Billion solar masses!




by sen-no-sen » 28/02/15, 10:49

Grelinette wrote:Mouais .... by putting this explanation into perspective by the simple fact that we devote enormously more human, material and financial means to look at the stars (and objects that roam in space) than to locate a crashed plane.



You compare two completely different things ...
Scientific research is already fishing due to budget limitations, and fewer and fewer young people are turning to scientific research for the benefit of more remunerative sectors, the same can be said of the aviation sector which in view of their turnover exploded in a few decades?
As a reminder:

“A record year! The best result in the history of Airbus. Marwan Lahoud, director of strategy and marketing for Airbus Group, the parent company of the European aircraft manufacturer, can be satisfied. On the occasion of the presentation of its annual results, Friday, February 27 in Munich (Germany), Airbus Group announced 2014 sales of 60,7 billion euros, up 5% compared to 2013. As a sign of the group's good health, operating profit increased by 54% to stand at 4,04 billion euros. Ultimately, net profit soared in 2014, gaining 59% in one year, to stand at 2,34 billion euros. Performance that will mainly benefit shareholders. Tom Enders, executive chairman of Airbus Group, announced a 60% dividend increase.
Learn more about http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/ ... Joo4xzr.99


Second year of super-growth for the French aeronautical industry

Le Point - Published on 23/04/2013 at 15:55
Orders from the aeronautics and defense industry reached 49,7 billion, 76% of which were recorded for exports, compared to 53,9 billion in 2011.


"From 108 million in 1960, the number of passengers rose to 1 billion in the early 1990s. The 3 billion mark will be crossed this year.
The number of megacities capable of generating traffic of more than 10.000 long-haul passengers per day will increase from 42 today to more than 90 in 2030.
The plane remains a marginal mode of transport. In terms of growth and penetration rate, it is at the same stage as the train in Europe in 1860. "

http://m.lesechos.fr/redirect_article.php?id=0202659728836

Can the same be said of the scientific sector?
: Arrow:
"Research and innovation are a top priority for the government." For more than ten years, the refrain has not changed. However, each year, the public funds allocated to researchers increase little or nothing. The 2014 budget presented today is no exception. At 7,77 billion euros, it is down 1% and returns to its 2012 level.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/sciences/2013/09/25/01008-20130925ARTFIG00158-le-budget-de-la-recherche-en-legere-baisse.php

: Arrow:
The event is rare and indicates the opening of a new crisis in the world of research. The National Committee for Scientific Research (CoNRS) met in Paris in an extraordinary plenary session, Wednesday, June 11, to discuss "the crisis in scientific employment".
Learn more about http://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/article/ ... ZtCTbWl.99

http://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/article/2014/06/16/l-emploi-scientifique-en-crise_4439184_1650684.html

Regarding flight MH370 it will indeed be quite difficult to find the debris of an airplane that apparently has not crashed ....
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