Critical look at zetetics

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ABC2019
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by ABC2019 » 11/12/20, 09:04

Janic wrote:
It is no longer in libraries that we know whether a vaccine works or has worked, but in the OFFICIAL STATISTICAL CURVES. Gold most vaccine diseases had already decreased by more than 99% before vaccine
this is obviously completely false according to your own figures since you yourself mention an epidemic AFTER the start of the vaccination (but I hope you are not surprised that we were not able to achieve full vaccination coverage during the war, we had other things to do, if I may say so), so obviously the disease had not gone away.
do you even know how to analyze a curve?
You still have difficulty reading French. What does it mean : MOST ? this is one of these most, not most itself, so it is all the vaccine pathologies that have shown a decrease of more than 99% between originally statistics, reread it, and these vaccine pathologies.

I'm still waiting to know what figures you're basing yourself on, and not an answer like "official statistics show it", or "just look at the national library", I'm waiting for real names of diseases, and real numbers per year, like the ones you ended up putting out on diphtheria, and which absolutely do not show what you are claiming (a drop of 99% before the introduction of the vaccines).
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Obamot
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Obamot » 11/12/20, 12:21

The Zététicians who rise up against the critics, we will have seen it all! They don't listen to France Inter! Have they been lying for months ..?

I talk to him about the possibility of observing the facts during the current crisis and the vaccinations which are starting in England but he returns the ball to you (what report? It was me who suggested a means of control to him, not you !! !) in short we do not argue here are the facts: (although he stubbornly refuses that they are established ...!) Point bar.

Whatever the denial, it is true, the fall in lethality is very clear in the United Kingdom, and it is now that the choice is to undertake the vaccination campaigns!

4CB129F6-069A-4E13-BD57-A6A8F430DC00.jpeg


Bad faith when you hold us ... ”


ABC2019 wrote:
Obamot wrote:
At all, we are at the heart of the matter, you refuse to establish the facts to prevent the truth from being revealed!

well then ! Janic does not give ONE fact, not ONE curve, not ONE reference, throws untruths without any justification, and I am the one who "refuses to establish the facts"?

keep going clowning to amuse the gallery, it makes everyone laugh!


For him the facts are “clowning” and for Pédro “aggressions” : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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Janic
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Janic » 11/12/20, 13:33

I'm still waiting to know what figures you're basing yourself on, and not an answer like "official statistics show it", or "just look at the national library", I'm waiting for real names of diseases, and real numbers per year, like the ones you ended up putting out on diphtheria, and which absolutely do not show what you are claiming (a drop of 99% before the introduction of the vaccines).
You still can't read at your age. you are at the point of not even knowing how to consult government sites, it is worrying ... for you! So you type, for example "statistical curves. Govt" and you will have answers
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by izentrop » 13/12/20, 03:26

The "French scientist" Didier Raoult receives the Rusty Razor Award for pseudoscience https://www.skeptic.org.uk/2020/11/fren ... doscience/
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Janic
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Janic » 13/12/20, 06:40

castagliola, the one who even has to sleep and take a shower with a mask and who continues to look for the causes of AIDS in HIV and since 86, she has found nothing, where there is nothing! And septic is hardly better playing the influencers / debunkers except that they forget themselves in their pit: weird ... all these sects! 8)
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Obamot
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Obamot » 13/12/20, 11:02

First of all, it is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with zetetics, nothing "scientific" but you have to expect everything from a zetetician.

It's just outrageous provocation to get us to react. From ordinary mediocrity by strangers to notorious incompetence, who think they are experts and “woueb heroes”. Pathetic.
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Janic » 13/12/20, 11:44

It's just outrageous provocation to get us to react. From ordinary mediocrity by strangers to notorious incompetence, who think they are experts and “woueb heroes”. Pathetic.
quite and this is evident when these "experts" of the vacuum, stuck in their contradictions, are reduced to criticizing the twisted comma on the wrong side. It's not even ethical! : Cheesy:
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Janic » 13/12/20, 12:57

Diphtheria is a disease that has been vaccinated for decades, even though
vaccine program start dates vary widely from country to country.
The vaccine began to be used in the 20th century, in the 20s. In France, country
pioneer, it has been compulsory since 1938 and in Germany, during the Nazi era and in
the occupied zones it was used massively during the second world war. In
France there were some 15 annual cases in the years preceding the
war and during the war the cases were multiplied by three and the deaths by two. In
Germany the incidence rate in 1940 was 12,4 per 100. In Norway in 000
there were 17 cases and in 000 about 1939; in 54, there were 1908 deaths while in
1939 there were only 2. However, with the decree making the vaccine compulsory in 1941
(it was an area occupied by the Germans), in 1942 there were 22 cases and nearly
of 700 deaths.
In Spain the registers indicate 60 cases at the beginning of the 000th century and nearly 20
death. Concretely, in 1901 there were 6 deaths, in 299 (beginning of the war
civil) there were 1 dead, however in 100 (end of the civil war) there were
4 dead. After the disasters of the war, in 058 there were 1950 deaths and in
1964 only 81. Thus, during the period 1901-1964, the death rate from
diphtheria descended from 98,7% and the morbidity rate of 97,2%.

Whooping cough is a disease that has been vaccinated against for a long time. The
first vaccinations were carried out in the United States in the 40s, so
limited. England approved the vaccine for sale in 1953, but its use
was not massive right away. However, in the middle of the 19th century, in England and
in Wales the death rate in children aged 0 to 15 was close to 1 cases per
million inhabitants, while in 1953 the number of deaths was 25 per million. What
means that the decrease in the incidence of the disease between 1868 (date of the first
censuses) and 1953 (date of introduction of the vaccine) was 98,5%.

In 1906 the total mortality from pertussis in France represented around 3 deaths,
whereas in 1959 (year of marketing of the vaccine) there were 280 deaths; the
decrease was therefore 92% between these two dates. Nevertheless, as in many
other countries, vaccination became generalized in France from 1966 in the form
a multiple vaccine (tetracoq, then pentacoq). If we consider the period 1906-1966, the
decrease in mortality was 96%.
In Spain, pertussis deaths topped 4 at the start of the 000th century
century; in 1931 there were 1 deaths, 114 in 491, 1950 in 33. It is precisely in
1965 that the vaccination campaigns against tetanus, diphtheria,
whooping cough. The decrease in mortality during the period 1901-1965 in Spain has
summer of 99,15%, which means that the mortality in 1965 was 147 times lower than in
1901. If we take into account the fact that in 1965 the Spanish population had
practically doubled compared to the beginning of the century (same thing in France and
England) the decrease is even more significant.

Measles is a disease for which we systematically vaccinate in some
country for only twenty years, usually in combination with the
rubella and mumps (MMR in France, MMR in Anglo-Saxon countries, TV in
Spain…). In the case of measles, in England and Wales the rate of
mortality, in children up to 15 years, in the middle of the 19th century was 1 deaths
per million inhabitants, in 1960 there were hardly any more deaths. The first ones
Measles vaccines were used in the United States in the 60s.
therefore the decrease in mortality in England and Wales cannot
be attributed to vaccination campaigns.

In France, the massive campaigns by the ROR started in 1983, despite
warnings in 1977 from Professor BASTIN who stated: "It will be difficult to vaccinate
systematically in our country where the disease is mild given that out of 100
hospitalizations mortality is only 0,17% ”. In France, the absolute figures of
deaths attributed to measles in 1906 were 3, rising to 756 in 20, which
shows that the decrease in mortality between the years 1906-1983 was 99,5%.

In Spain, according to the statistics directory, the number of deaths due to measles in
1901 was 18 and in 463 the figures were around 1907. In 14, we
counted 19 deaths and the vaccination campaigns began in 1982. We note
therefore, that in Spain, without vaccination, the decrease in mortality between 1901 and 1981
was from 99,9%. As we said before, the numbers are even more
impressive when you consider that the population of most of Europe
doubled between 1900 and 1980.

Epidemics and vaccinations
The examples cited clearly show that in the epidemiological dynamics of these
diseases, the role of vaccinations has been insignificant. This finding applies
also to other diseases: tuberculosis, mumps, rubella, haemophilus, etc ... If we
except polio, a disease for which it would be necessary to devote another study,
the impact of these diseases gradually diminished during the 20th century as
that socio-economic progress transformed the living conditions of citizens
Europeans.

The almost total disappearance of typhoid fever (vaccination has never been
systematic in the general population) as well as the disappearance of scarlet fever, other
dreaded infectious disease for which no vaccination has existed, confirm what
just said. However, and despite the evidence of the data presented here, we continue to
use vaccinations with a kind of ingenuity peculiar to believers in prey
religious fervor. In this regard, the case of tuberculosis is particularly
dramatic: in almost all European countries, the practice of
BCG in the 70s and 80s due to its ineffectiveness and many effects
serious secondary
that he was training.
If we pay attention to the conclusions, quite official, made after the tests
controlled with BCG, the list of observations is sufficiently explicit to
do without comments.

1. The efficiency oscillates between 80% and 0%. There is even a study that talks about effectiveness
negative (-57%), which means that among the vaccinated there were more than
cases of tuberculosis than in unvaccinated.
2. The explanation for this phenomenon remains a mystery.
3. The vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission.
4. The vaccine would protect by limiting dissemination in the blood and would be
probably effective in cases of endogenous reactivation in the early phase of
life but not in cases of adult reactivation nor in cases of
new re-infections. Note that the italics are there to mark the aspect
very hypothetical of these observations. It should be noted that in Barcelona (Spain) there are
had a very significant decrease in the number of meningitis
tuberculosis in children after the withdrawal of BCG, a vaccine that was
used precisely to make this condition disappear in infants.
5. The protection is limited in time: maximum 10-15 years. Should not
revaccinate (latest recommendations).
6. BCG does not protect infected individuals; it is precisely those who have the
more risk of getting sick.
7. With full immunization coverage, overall tuberculosis mortality could
be reduced, at best, by only 6%.
8. Vaccination does not reduce the annual risk of infection.
(RAI).
9. The fact that it is a vaccine with live bacteria, there are risks
of concern to serious or fatal complications in children and adults
infected with HIV, individuals who represent the highest risk group for
tuberculosis.
10. Hypersensitivity to tuberculin after BCG vaccination makes it impossible to
differentiation between a positive reaction to vaccination and the presence of
natural infection, which leads to the conclusion that
- the tuberculin test has no predictive value
- vaccination hinders the implementation of other prevention strategies
- it makes it difficult to diagnose non-bacillary forms of tuberculosis
- it prevents the use of epidemiological indicators of infection.

In view of what has just been explained, it seems completely absurd that this vaccine
continues to be used in some autonomous communities in Spain and that it is
still compulsory in France. Equally incomprehensible is the fact that WHO has
included this vaccine in its EPI (Extended Vaccination Program), while from the mouth
even its representatives, it is famine, misery, undernutrition etc ... that we
owes the emergence of tuberculosis in the world.
How to explain that with such
bases, have we vaccinated 1/3 of the world's population?

Vaccination against rubella further strengthens the almost religious belief in
benefits of immunization programs. Yet once again we are faced with
a paradox: vaccineists put forward data that demonstrate the irrationality of
allegedly preventive measures. In Catalonia (Spain), the vaccine sectors
claim that when vaccination campaigns began in the 70s,
90% of European women of childbearing age were immune to rubella.
However, PUMAROLA et al. maintain that today, 97% Catalan women
of childbearing age are immune not through vaccination, but through circulation
wild virus! In addition, it is recognized that women who are artificially immunized
are likely to be contaminated if exposed in a proportion of 50% to
80%
, while for women naturally immunized the proportion is only
de 5%. This means that you create a feeling of security that is totally counterproductive.
and which can facilitate contamination between infected people and pregnant women. Yes
to this is added the declarations made at the Glasgow Congress in 1993 highlighting
evidence the problems osteoarthritis and neuritis induced by vaccination in
adult women, the question we have to ask ourselves is: why do we persist in
vaccinate with this vaccine which, in addition to the undesirable effects it causes, offers only
false security, which could explain the cases of congenital rubella syndrome in
people vaccinated?
Regarding influenza, Spanish data on morbidity, provided by
the health administration itself, are indisputable. We discover that
parallel to major vaccination campaigns, the incidence of the disease for
100 inhabitants increased by almost 000%! This does not prevent vaccineists
to state that influenza vaccination is a good measure to reduce the
influenza morbidity. These claims were made precisely at the time when Spain
was the country in Europe with the highest influenza vaccination rate in
level of the number of doses per capita.


The data we have just provided appear to us sufficient to provide the
proof that vaccines played only a secondary or even an insignificant role in the
control and disappearance of the epidemics which, in the past, decimated populations
Europe
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Obamot
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Obamot » 13/12/20, 22:40

Yes but afterwards, as a thank you, you are entitled to a cartoon : Mrgreen: but osef : Arrowd:

FFC59E47-7965-4611-88E6-F860E99622BE.gif
FFC59E47-7965-4611-88E6-F860E99622BE.gif (495.71 KiB) Viewed 1125 times
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by izentrop » 14/12/20, 02:11

Obamot wrote:First of all, it is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with zetetics, nothing "scientific" but you have to expect everything from a zetetician.

It's just outrageous provocation to get us to react. From ordinary mediocrity by strangers to notorious incompetence, who think they are experts and “woueb heroes”. Pathetic.
The Rusted Razor 2020 offered to friend Didier, is the ineffective version of Ockham's razor, a fundamental principle of zetetics.

You may understand this version, explained here to children:


The famous Didier did and still does strong with his relentlessness without proof
The scientist made headlines around the world earlier this year for his study to promote the use of the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19. The study, which claimed that hydroxychloroquine lowered viral load in patients with COVID-19 and that this effect was enhanced by co-treatment with azithromycin, was presented to the media by press conference in March 2020 , before being published in the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents.

The following analysis of Raoult's data found that his sample size was incredibly small, with only 6 patients given the hydroxychloroquine / azithromycin combination. The study was also found to be poorly controlled, and data were excluded for a number of patients whose condition worsened while they were transferred to intensive care, or died. The following studies have shown no clinical benefit for the use of hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19.
The rest we know: Trump, Bolsonaro and all the harm they've done
Skeptical editor-in-chief Michael Marshall said: "We have received a lot of nominations this year for world leaders like Donald Trump and Jair Bolsanaro, for the pseudoscientific promotion of COVID-19 cures - and in each case, their most important ineffective 'cure. Was hydroxychloroquine, as a direct result of Raoult's study.

« It's hard to find an example of a quack that has spread so far, influencing the public health response to a deadly pandemic and creating widespread confusion around the world. »
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