Critical look at zetetics

[ABC2019]

It's easy.

excellent example! go ahead! [/ quote]

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphtérie

bah yes easy, 1945, and it disappeared with the generalization of vaccination.

In 1945, France had 45 cases of diphtheria, including 000 deaths.

Almost disappearance of diphtheria in industrialized countries (1945-1990)
In Western countries after WWII largely in connection with a high vaccination rate, the disease gradually regressed to be close to disappearance in the years 1980-1990.

In France, in the 1950s, there were less than 2 cases per year. The fall was very rapid in the years 500-1960: a thousand cases including 70 deaths in 36, in 1960 1965 cases including 251 deaths, 10 cases in 100, less than 1968 cases in 10. In the 1979s, there were fewer 1980 cases per year (and no deaths since 5), the last indigenous case occurred in 1982.

This development is found in Western countries, such as the United States (between 1980 and 1995, 40 cases of diphtheria) 27.

therefore there was no decrease of 99% (in fact rather 100%) BEFORE the vaccination but THANKS to the vaccination.

[Janic]

therefore there was no decrease of 99% (in fact rather 100%) BEFORE the vaccination but THANKS to the vaccination.

oh no my coco! You have already forgotten; since the start of statistics not since 1945 and when do these statistics go back?
http://www.numdam.org/article/PSMIR_1983___2_A14_0.pdf
time when mortality is high in most pathologies and obviously no vaccines. then we will talk about numbers indeed!

[ABC2019]

therefore there was no decrease of 99% (in fact rather 100%) BEFORE the vaccination but THANKS to the vaccination.

oh no my coco! You have already forgotten; since the start of statistics not since 1945 and when do these statistics go back?
http://www.numdam.org/article/PSMIR_1983___2_A14_0.pdf
time when mortality is high in most pathologies and obviously no vaccines. then we will talk about numbers indeed!

So that's it, if there were 45 cases in 000, you might say that there were 1945 million in the 4,5th century!

the site gives you the figures in the 50th century, they are of the same order of magnitude, from 100 to 100 per 000 inhabitants. There has certainly been an improvement through better living conditions, and the use of serotherapy, but absolutely not a "99% drop" as you say. Only vaccination made it possible to eradicate it completely in France.

but hey, continue your systematic disinformation, you can only do that anyway.

Diphtheria was reported as a common disease throughout Europe, and affecting mainly children, in the 20th century. Its epidemic extension becomes maximum in the nineteenth century. In temperate countries, one in 15 people had diphtheria (most often before the age of 5) and 10 to 50% of them died from it, and up to 50% in the most severe epidemics. The death rate from diphtheria reached rates of 100 to 1 per XNUMX inhabitants per yearXNUMX.

The strength and frequency of the epidemics varied in multi-year cycles of ten or fifty years.

Pre-vaccination period in industrialized countries
C. diphtheriae circulates frequently, and cases of diphtheria are numerous, in addition to hidden infections. At this price, a natural immunity is created, reinforced by re-infections (natural reminders). Almost all young adults are thus immunized, as are newborns who obtain passive immunity from their mother (protective antibodies crossing the placenta), but of short duration (between 6 months and a year) 22.

Diphtheria is therefore above all a childhood disease, especially of preschool children: children under 5 represent 40% of cases of diphtheria, and those under 15, 70%. This pattern was observed in Europe and the United States during the first half of the twentieth century23. In France, during the same period, there were around 20 cases per year000.

However, at the start of the twentieth century, we observed a lesser severity, more sparse epidemics, and the beginning of a slide in cases towards older age groups. This development is attributed to socio-economic factors: improvement in living standards, families with fewer children, less promiscuity. Similarly, the case fatality rate (mortality in patients) fell from 50 to 15% from the 1880s to the 1910s, this is attributed to serotherapy (anti-diphtheria serum) 25.

[Obamot]

On the contrary, I oppose you a way to verify it - what would break your harassment towards him - it is a PERFECT way to verify it in vivo during the current pandemic. And you obviously wouldn't want to check it on the assumption that it proves you wrong.

still not, you divert the question with another question, Janic was not talking about covid but about previous diseases, and I am still waiting for links on curves and specific articles. It is not a "harassment", I just ask him where he gets his assertions, which nobody forced him to make.

Your bad faith is phenomenal, but you've obviously gotten into the habit of arguing and saying the biggest possible enormities, while then blaming others - after all, that's the essence of the JOE Method.

At all, we are at the heart of the matter, you refuse to establish the facts to prevent the truth from being revealed!
You do it every time with me. It's not JOE you, it's JOE and DONALD together (we never tire of it!)

- “If I had lost I would have been a really good loser"

[Janic]

So that's it, if there were 45 cases in 000, you might say that there were 1945 million in the 4,5th century!

as bad as usual, you take a number anyhow out of context. If you read the medical sites (provaxx,) they clearly indicate that an important epidemic explodes in the 40s with an epidemic peak precisely in 45. You will therefore not find any curves which go up before 45 because they would show that after this peak , the disease regains its rate of previous years when there were no vaccines. you have to look at the ENTIRE statistical curve, not just a little bit!

the site gives you the figures in the 50th century, they are of the same order of magnitude, from 100 to 100 per 000 inhabitants. There has certainly been an improvement through better living conditions, and the use of serotherapy, but absolutely not a "99% drop" as you say.

The 99% drop is in most infectious diseases, by just one, this is called a statistical average as we do with seasonal flu now.

Only vaccination made it possible to eradicate it completely in France.

We will then see that this statement is precisely false.

[ABC2019]

At all, we are at the heart of the matter, you refuse to establish the facts to prevent the truth from being revealed!

well then ! Janic does not give ONE fact, not ONE curve, not ONE reference, throws untruths without any justification, and I am the one who "refuses to establish the facts"?

continue your clowning to amuse the gallery, it makes everyone laugh!

[ABC2019]

So that's it, if there were 45 cases in 000, you might say that there were 1945 million in the 4,5th century!

as bad as usual, you take a number anyhow out of context. If you read the medical sites (provaxx,) they clearly indicate that an important epidemic explodes in the 40s with an epidemic peak precisely in 45. You will therefore not find any curves which go up before 45 because they would show that after this peak , the disease regains its rate of previous years when there were no vaccines.

oh yes, you are discovering what an epidemic is, with a wave that grows and falls when immunity is installed! great news ! except that as the site explains, if young children were protected in the first months thanks to their mother's antibodies, immunity disappeared after a few years and each generation of children was struck by an epidemic which took its share of victims. And it is the vaccines that have stopped these regular epidemics. Denying it is disinformation and the spread of fakenews.
And it was the same for all infectious diseases. It is certain that the development of a drinking water system in the XNUMXth century greatly improved the health situation, in particular for enteric diseases, but some such as polio or diphtheria only disappeared thanks to vaccines.

[Janic]

but some, like polio or diphtheria, only disappeared thanks to vaccines.

again your fakenews, provided credible figures, not dogmas and I will show you that it is false too!

oh yes, you are discovering what an epidemic is, with a wave that grows and falls when immunity is installed! great news !

It's not true you know what an epidemic is, but you're finally progressing

except that as the site explains, if young children were protected in the first months thanks to their mother's antibodies, immunity disappeared after a few years and each generation of children was struck by an epidemic that took its share of victims.

It's fair, but the most important is Why yesterday as now!

And it is the vaccines that have stopped these regular epidemics. Denying it is disinformation and the spread of fakenews.

It is above all an immense ignorance on your part. and your sect. So check out the real official statistics!

So a small example of manipulation of your sect on the diphtheria curves in question from 1945
In reality, your sect starts them from a maximum peak of 1945, but if we go back to the years preceding the introduction of vaccination, and without going into too much detail, from 1912 to 1923 the average over these years was from 12.000 cases per year, then from 1923 to 1940 when the vaccine was introduced and therefore optional vaccination, the average figure rose to 20.000. Then the curve exploded from 1940 to 1945 when it became compulsory, with its peak at 45.500 cases per year. So from 13.795 in 40, it goes to 46.750 in 43, then goes down to 41.500 in 44 and it goes up to 45.500 in 45 when it becomes compulsory. Finally, it goes down naturally to find the figure of 12.000 in 1947 and therefore continue its descent.
Is it due to the vaccine, to general hygiene? are the diseases cyclical? if this case were unique the question would be decided, but the same phenomenon occurs with each infectious pathology as is observed with this covid. And so, from this truncated statistic too, but less than that of your sect, one or the other aspect can be attributed as much good results as bad. So what about all the other pathologies according to these archives?
These questions have already been seen and reviewed on the other topics that have dealt with this subject, just refer to them!

[ABC2019]

but some, like polio or diphtheria, only disappeared thanks to vaccines.

again your fakenews, provided credible figures, not dogmas and I will show you that it is false too!

well I have already provided them to you, the figures!

It's easy.

excellent example! go ahead!

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphtérie

bah yes easy, 1945, and it disappeared with the generalization of vaccination.

In 1945, France had 45 cases of diphtheria, including 000 deaths.

Almost disappearance of diphtheria in industrialized countries (1945-1990)
In Western countries after WWII largely in connection with a high vaccination rate, the disease gradually regressed to be close to disappearance in the years 1980-1990.

In France, in the 1950s, there were less than 2 cases per year. The fall was very rapid in the years 500-1960: a thousand cases including 70 deaths in 36, in 1960 1965 cases including 251 deaths, 10 cases in 100, less than 1968 cases in 10. In the 1979s, there were fewer 1980 cases per year (and no deaths since 5), the last indigenous case occurred in 1982.

This development is found in Western countries, such as the United States (between 1980 and 1995, 40 cases of diphtheria) 27.

So if you think you can easily prove that they are false, it's your turn, I did what you asked me.

So a small example of manipulation of your sect on the diphtheria curves in question from 1945
In reality, your sect starts them from a maximum peak of 1945, but if we go back to the years preceding the introduction of vaccination, and without going into too much detail, from 1912 to 1923 the average over these years was from 12.000 cases per year, then from 1923 to 1940 when the vaccine was introduced and therefore optional vaccination, the average figure rose to 20.000. Then the curve exploded from 1940 to 1945 when it became compulsory, with its peak at 45.500 cases per year. So from 13.795 in 40, it goes to 46.750 in 43, then goes down to 41.500 in 44 and it goes up to 45.500 in 45 when it becomes compulsory. Finally, it goes down naturally to find the figure of 12.000 in 1947 and therefore continue its descent.
Is it due to the vaccine, to general hygiene? are the diseases cyclical? if this case were unique the question would be decided, but the same phenomenon occurs with each infectious pathology as is observed with this covid. And so, from this truncated statistic too, but less than that of your sect, one or the other aspect can be attributed as much good results as bad. So what about all the other pathologies according to these archives?
These questions have already been seen and reviewed on the other topics that have dealt with this subject, just refer to them!

you said that "most vaccine diseases were already reduced by 99% before vaccine"

a B C

You don't put a vaccine on the market just saying "there are lots of books in the national library that say vaccines work", at least I hope we agree on that?

It is no longer in libraries that we know whether a vaccine works or has worked, but in the OFFICIAL STATISTICAL CURVES. However, most vaccine diseases had already decreased by more than 99% before vaccine

this is obviously completely false according to your own figures since you yourself mention an epidemic AFTER the start of the vaccination (but I hope you are not surprised that we were not able to achieve full vaccination coverage during the war, we had other things to do, if I may say so), so obviously the disease had not gone away.

So if you weren't talking about diphtheria, what vaccine disease were you talking about?

[Janic]

It is no longer in libraries that we know whether a vaccine works or has worked, but in the OFFICIAL STATISTICAL CURVES. Gold most vaccine diseases had already decreased by more than 99% before vaccine

this is obviously completely false according to your own figures since you yourself mention an epidemic AFTER the start of the vaccination (but I hope you are not surprised that we were not able to achieve full vaccination coverage during the war, we had other things to do, if I may say so), so obviously the disease had not gone away.

do you even know how to analyze a curve?
You still have difficulty reading French. What does it mean : MOST ? this is one of these most, not most itself, so it is all the vaccine pathologies that have shown a decrease of more than 99% between originally statistics, reread it, and these vaccine pathologies. But there again, you have difficulties with reading, I wrote; And so, FROM THIS TRUNCATED STATISTICAL also, but less than that of your sect, since it only dates back to 1912 and not at the origin of the stats, the decrease does not appear as a whole. So consultation of the archives on the official statistics which will confirm or deny these trends.

So if you weren't talking about diphtheria, what vaccine disease were you talking about?

Still the same reading problems, so reread what I wrote in non: what you believe, what you think, what maybe, etc ... the answer is there!