advanced civilization? What signs to recognize?

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Lietseu
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advanced civilization? What signs to recognize?




by Lietseu » 12/05/11, 18:05

Curious subject?

However, the news pushes me to ask this question to most of you ...

How would you define a truly advanced civilization?

What would be its key tools?

Its social, economic, philosophical and human foundations?


Meow and thank you for your answers, I will give my point of view later to fuel the debate. :P :P :P
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by highfly-addict » 12/05/11, 19:10

In aeronautics, we have a proverb:

"there are no good pilots, there are only old pilots"

Which, by and large, devotes time and experience as core values.

So, there is no "really advanced civilization", but there are (still?) Very old ones.

It may be on this side that we must look.
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by elephant » 12/05/11, 19:25

Equivocal question .....

what good is it to have spacecraft, miraculous hospitals, incredible computer equipment ... if the big cities are full of homeless people, if there are those excluded from education, comfort, safety, if bosses without faith or law throw their employees like old Kleenex to hire frisky young people at the top ...

The HDI (Human Development Index) is an interesting indicator because it counts the number of individuals enjoying certain advantages.
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Re: Civilization? What signs to recognize it?




by sen-no-sen » 14/05/11, 15:36

Lietseu wrote:

How would you define a truly advanced civilization?

What would be its key tools?

Its social, economic, philosophical and human foundations?

Meow and thank you for your answers, I will give my point of view later to fuel the debate. :P :P :P


Once again, it is necessary to define precisely what is meant by "advanced civilization".
This expression generally implies the idea of ​​technological advance, but the latter is far from being the most determining factor in affirming the degree of advancement of a civilization.
And even staying at the technological stage, we should not confuse civilization and the individuals who compose it ...


To bounce back on the excellent remark of highflyaddict it is advisable to look from the side of those who have "seniority".

Take the example of "the primitives", although they may appear to our modern standards as people living in another age, the latter have a much more complete control of their environment than a "modern man".

How many of us are able to make fire, purify water, find food, make a weapon, heal? (have fun making a fire ... without matches or lighter!)

In truth the degree of complexity of our civilization owes only to the multitude of exchanges of information ... of which nobody controls even a small part.
From this point of view "modern man" is far from being so advanced ...
As for the great discoveries and our teaching, you would be surprised to see the number of people ignorant of the very foundations of the functioning of our society (and me first!).

This "regularization" made, it is necessary to determine the criteria for advancement ...
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by Christophe » 14/05/11, 16:50

There is a greatness that allows you to know at a glance the level of technical advancement of a civilization. It's simply its energy consumption!

The more energy a civilization consumes, the more powerful and technologically advanced it is.

By energy we must understand any form of energy of course.

A Russian scientist has reflected in detail on the subject and created a scale (the upper levels are pure metaphysics!): Kardashev
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89chelle_de_Kardashev

Very interesting debate: https://www.econologie.com/forums/echelle-de ... t8166.html


Attention, energy consumption means technologically advanced but does not mean that socially or spiritually it is ... and vice versa!

For example, in La Belle Verte, where their industrial and technological civilization has collapsed for a while (but they still master teleportation or interstellar travel which must require large amounts of energy and technical knowledge): https://www.econologie.com/forums/la-belle-v ... t4807.html

See also the Fermi paradox which one of the postulates says that all (fairly) advanced civilizations are doomed to self-destruction: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxe_de_Fermi

I also found this: https://www.econologie.com/forums/les-chance ... t7767.html
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by the middle » 15/05/11, 12:36

A civilization is advanced, if it knows how to live without wars, and without social inequalities ...
I'm the one saying it.
: Cheesy:
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by Christophe » 15/05/11, 12:38

After its self-destruction, there are actually no longer any real social inequalities on the survivors: everyone is homeless or assimilated ...

See the (very creepy) film "The Road" ...

: Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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by Obamot » 15/05/11, 13:36

I ask myself the same questions as Elephant, but Lietseu does not ask "which civilization does not meet the criteria of an advanced civilization" .... Because there we could start by talking about access to drinking water ... So the criteria must vary, depending on where we live ... Guess what we should think about Japan now!

highflyaddict wrote:In aeronautics, we have a proverb:

"there are no good pilots, there are only old pilots"

Which, by and large, devotes time and experience as core values.

So, there is no "really advanced civilization", but there are (still?) Very old ones.

It may be on this side that we must look.

... no duration without social bond or good health, and therefore: solid culture and food related.

It all goes through the respect, and therefore refinement and sharing around the table, right?

For the signs which come to us from the depths of the ages, it is obviously the practices of gathering and hunting which were practiced in group, then cooking methods and therefore the practice of everything that revolves around "sharing the meal" and its preparation as well as the social rituals surrounding it! This is the most important amha to qualify "the advancement of a civilization" ... Finally, it doesn't take much, it can be seen in simplicity, right?

For example, the best cooking methods that come from there:
- for a long time it is steam cooking which would be the best, (prehistoric tribes made a hole in the ground as a pot, put water + vegetables and everything they intended to cook there and then make a fire to heat stones, which they swung inside, which raised the temperature until the water boiled and cooked everything while sterilizing everything at the same time ... More respect and sharing less sickness or war ... so we lived longer ...
- In a more recent period, it is that of vegetables and foods seized quickly because sautéed in woks.

The best of immunology: we must see who consumes polyunsaturated fatty acids => for example the Mediterranean basin with olive oil, or even brown rice in Asia, which contains little, but is sufficient if it is consumed in as a staple food since childhood ...

Cultural practices "of peace": there are many, so difficult to know them all, for example the symbol of the olive tree, tree of peace. From ancient Egypt, or even Buddhism philosophy which has been in refinement and non-violence (if any ...) for more than 5000 years. And compatible with what Highflyaddict, Sen-no-sen and Lejustemilieu think ...

Basically, my gaze is rather towards Asia (ex-country of the kingdom of Siam or south-east Asia ... By not removing certain countries from the north ...), and less often towards the countries of the basin medierrannéen, because ... of war!

But we must not dismiss the animists in certain tribes, such as the Masai, the Issans and many others. So let's not generalize by looking at the navel ... with our perception filters and "our criteria" ... Because as Christophe suggests, the most "advanced" are obviously not the ones who consume the most energy. .. In nature and animal species, it would be quite the opposite ...
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by netshaman » 17/05/11, 12:58

For me what characterizes an advanced civilization is the compassion of which its individuals are capable, it shows from the first glance: their environment is respected.
Their technology is of little importance, because spiritually they have achieved a very high degree of control over matter.
Technology is the crutch of young civilizations and an admission of weakness in relation to the environment.
A true civilization is first of all planetary: the Union has been achieved for a long time, all peoples have a common goal * and a common conscience *, this civilization aims to work for the well being of its individuals, especially the weakest so that everyone can live decently.
A society that does not take care of each of its individuals is doomed to disappear inexorably, because what is a society / civilization if not an assembly of individuals?

* Please note I am not talking about a single thought: it would be a dictatorship totally incompatible with the ideal of civilization!
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by Christophe » 17/05/11, 14:36

netshaman wrote:For me what characterizes an advanced civilization is the compassion of which its individuals are capable, it shows from the first glance: their environment is respected.


So, according to you, we were more advanced (technologically, socially ...) before the 1st industrial revolution than now since the environment was much better respected at that time? : Shock: : Shock:

Interesting your reflection, it shows O how subjective the notion of "advanced" is !!
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