Olbers paradox, why the night is ... black

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bamboo
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by bamboo » 29/06/12, 09:55

nlc wrote:If there was a big bang at some point, ok, why not, but suddenly, what was there before? And if this big bang took place at a specific point, what was around it? Nothing? What is nothingness? Is it nothing, emptiness? Okay, but how is it technically possible to have a vacuum ..... endlessly? How can we imagine that the universe could be infinite? And if it is finished, what is behind it?
[...] because if all of this was created by some "god", who is he, where is he, where is he watching us from, and why? And who created it? It just doesn't make sense!

This is exactly what has occupied my mind since my birth.
No more answer than you because since the slightest hypothesis rests on other questions.

For example, even the vacuum does not mean the absence of everything: indeed, for there to be vacuum, it means that there is a space. that could have been filled but that is empty. Who created this empty space? etc ...

Will have to live with these questions! :D
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by Remundo » 29/06/12, 12:31

You ask yourself lots of questions ... all curious minds ask themselves.

I have come to the following conclusions:
- we will never have the answer, or the answers
- why should we pretend to think we can explain everything: no doubt our intellectual faculties and our means of understanding the world are too limited?

A very simple scenario: imagine that there are other worlds made of matter or any other phenomenon having no interaction with matter, therefore with our scientific instruments ...

1) We are unable to detect them.
2) They will always remain hypotheses.
3) Even if we detect them, can we understand them?

Next, the metaphysical question: does all this make sense or not? Is there one or more conductors? The scientist departs from these reflections to transmit the thing to the philosophers and the monks, who never find certainties and lose themselves irretrievably in conjectures and / or beliefs.
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by Obamot » 29/06/12, 12:37

: Cheesy: In short, we have humor:


indy49 wrote:
[...] If not compared to the theory of the big bang, I do not really know what to think about it, quite simply because that anyway that does not answer any question [...]
No more answer than you [...]

Is it to pass the time ?! : Mrgreen:

indy49 wrote:Who created this empty space? etc ...

Why would it be "someone"? : Mrgreen:

indy49 wrote:even emptiness does not mean the absence of everything: indeed, for there to be emptiness, it means that there is a space. that could have been filled but that is empty. Who created this empty space?

Take a cupboard ... empty. No need to create it, it's there! : Mrgreen:

indy49 wrote:
indy49 wrote:
NLC wrote:[...] nothingness [...]
This is exactly what has occupied my mind since my birth.

Will have to live with these questions!

Beware: your mind will be haunted until eternal sleep ...? : Mrgreen:
Last edited by Obamot the 29 / 06 / 12, 12: 44, 2 edited once.
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by sen-no-sen » 29/06/12, 12:41

nlc wrote:
Scientific documentary on the Creation of Allah the POWERFUL




This video was produced by Science et Futures, the comments quoted in the appendix have nothing to do with the said video.

Otherwise compared to the big bang theory, I'm not sure what to think about it, simply because anyway it doesn't answer any questions !!


The Big Bang theory answers the following question: what was the configuration of the Universe at the beginning (I mean at the beginning calculable by our technical means).
However, we learn by observation that our Universe is expanding.
If we take the film of time backwards we realize that the farther we go back, the more the universe was dense and warm, until it reached a point where the whole Universe was contained in a space infinitely hot and infinitely dense, that's the Big Bang.

The term Big Bang was popularized by the astro physicist Fred Hoyle in 1949 during a BBC radio broadcast.
The latter used this term in order to mock this theory, because, for his part, he defended a model based on a static universe. Over time, this expression remained, but it was misleading because it implies that the Big Bang was an explosion, which is not the case.

Who was he before the Big Bang?
It all depends on how you see things.
For this there are prerequisites.
If space and time appeared with the big bang, we can say that it is impossible to envisage a "before".

There are nevertheless models of "pre big bang", they imply that the pre time existed (I simplify in the extreme) before the big bang, they are as follows:

1) "Before" the big bang, our universe would enter into contraction (Big crunch), from this contraction there would have been a "rebound" (Big bang) and the universe would then have started expanding again (current phase).

2) Branes (multi-dimensional space-time from super string theory) would collide and then cause the big bang.

3) An infinite time passed, that is to say that it would be impossible to "arrive" at the zero moment ... a kind of Zeno paradox!

4) The universe would have come out of black holes ...

5) The Big bang would come from a quantum matrix creating multiverses.

And if this big bang took place at a specific point, what was around it?


It is a mistake to think that, the Big bang is an expansion of space-time, not an explosion. In an explosion there is what is called the "zero point".
So there is a center and a periphery. In the Universe there is no center, every point is the center, like the surface (2d) of a sphere where each point is the center of the sphere.

The Big Bang did not therefore "take place" in a precise place. Also pay attention to the notion of "around", it implies the notion of a pre-existing space, apart from space and time (space-time) its appeared jointly.

Nothing? What is nothingness? Is it nothing, emptiness?

Also pay attention to the term nothingness, Nothingness is a Metaphysical term which signifies the absence of everything.
How is it possible that something can arise from nothing?

Okay, but how is it technically possible to have a vacuum ..... endlessly? How can we imagine that the universe could be infinite? And if it is finished, what is behind it?


You answer the question yourself, we can always imagine a front, a back etc ...
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by Obamot » 29/06/12, 12:47

Among the essential questions, it might be interesting to know precisely:

- what is there after a red dwarf!
...and especially:
- after a black hole!

Only here, the Universe is not old enough for that ... We will have to wait : Mrgreen:
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by sen-no-sen » 29/06/12, 13:47

nlc wrote:I often asked myself all these questions, and ask them myself as soon as I lie down in the middle of the night in the middle of nature to observe the universe ... And all these questions, no one, and not even scientists, will ever be able to answer to !!


Science is only based on observable or demonstrable phenomena through calculations or experiments.
We often grant to science qualities that do not arise from its field, so we must clearly differentiate between physics and metaphysics.

It is said that when Stephen Hawking met Pope John Paul 2, he would have said to him: "everything that happened after the Big Bang is for you, what happened before is for us"!
A kind of scientific-religious Yalta agreement!

No more than religion will be able to answer it moreover, because if all this was created by some "god", who is he, where is he, from where he observes us, and why? And who created it? It just doesn't make sense!


God is a kind of "ontological stopper", we can always put God behind a theory: God triggered the big bang ... oh yes, but now we are talking about pre-big bang models?
And it doesn't matter! It's God who also triggered those there too! : Mrgreen:

In the words Albert Einstein: "Give me a definition of God and I'll tell you if I believe it or not"... given that it is an impossible concept to describe .... smart Albert!

If we consider the original origin of something, we inevitably come across an aporia.
In fact, whether we speak of a god or a universe, we constantly fall back into the problem of origin from ... and therefore if we pretend that there was nothing, how from non being are we passed to being?
Questions that make you dizzy, exciting, captivating, but impossible to resolve.

For my part I think that there is a kind of Omega point of knowledge, a limit beyond which no science, no religion can access, an Absolute Mystery ...

Ramana Maharshi said:
"The Self is neither light nor darkness, it is what it is, it cannot be defined ".
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by bamboo » 29/06/12, 14:14

Obamot wrote:Take a cupboard ... empty. No need to create it, it's there! : Mrgreen:

What made it?
What's next? above, below, ...
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by Obamot » 29/06/12, 14:44

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by Obamot » 29/06/12, 14:59

sen-no-sen wrote:For my part I think that there is a kind of Omega point of knowledge, a limit beyond which no science, no religion can access, an Absolute Mystery ...

Certainly, but given that this mystery is just what it is (let's put two minutes into perspective ... : Cheesy: ) it cannot be absolute. Unless it is a voluntarist situation, but then there ...

Besides, the simple fact that we exist as biological beings, sends us back to existential questions! We are absolute proof of the existence of "Something"... But what? We can neither explain the origin of the Universe nor explain to us what we are! Perhaps we would do well not to drag ourselves too much to wonder about it, without going back to the big bang (lol), it becomes more urgent, not to know the past but to preserve our well-compromised future .. .

And to say that we are not even immune to 3% inflation !!! : Mrgreen: : Cheesy: : Mrgreen:

There's something serious that messes with the man. I think with such autism, he misses out on a lot of things ...

Because in any case, we are not an "exclusively mineral" reality ... (What the theory of general relativity would seem to hammer at us.)

Because when we talk about big bang, we are talking about a timescale and abysmal speeds of evil temperatures and deadly radiation that would kill everything in their path like a black hole that engulfs the Universe itself. However this is not the case, a biological world full of intrinsic contradictions exists: since we are here ...! And honestly, I find it hard to believe that biological life forms are just a coincidence.

Mebon, I promised Dede not to take a stand : Mrgreen: : Cheesy:
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by sen-no-sen » 29/06/12, 16:16

Obamot wrote:And honestly, I find it hard to believe that biological life forms are just a coincidence.
: Cheesy:


This implies in many cases an "intervention" ...
However, it is quite conceivable that life itself the logical result of universal laws, without involving I do not know which demiurge.

We can also consider the fact that we are in a universe where life appeared in the middle of other parallel universes where all possible scenarios are played ... (we can all imagined !!!).

We would thus only be a "story" which develops among an almost infinite number of others, it makes you dizzy!
However, the theory of multiple universes (developed by
Hugh everret and its derivatives, is far from being far-fetched.
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