After 3D printer, the printing 2D not on paper ...

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louphil
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After 3D printer, the printing 2D not on paper ...




by louphil » 09/08/13, 12:27

If 3D printing is on the rise, 2D printing remains essential for certain uses, the palette of which should be able to be enlarged with current equipment ...

In despair, I post on Econology hoping that the multiple talents present can give me a hand or a "tip" ...

Indeed, I try to print from an "inkjet" which accepts "flat" printing for CD / DVD, on plexiglass or aluminum. The printer is an Epson R1800.
I often do audio montages with tubes, and the fronts of the controls are not at the top. Also, I had thought of printing them directly either on plexi (in mirror), or on aluminum or other ...

I have not been able to try anything in this direction yet, but I think that the ink projected on the plexi must slide as on a transparent sheet not treated for the inkjet (tracing paper among others).

I had tried the method of preliminary printing on water decal. The results are good, but the final positioning remains delicate, it is relatively expensive, and the possibilities are relatively limited compared to direct printing.

However, we have been seeing companies that have been offering direct printing on plexi for some time now, with inkjet technique.

Some of you may be familiar with the subject, and could tell me if the plexiglass needs to be treated before printing. It was all very well to ask google which, however, is a "friend" according to some, but I systematically fall on these companies that offer this kind of service. And this despite the fact of having sometimes dug up certain information concerning certain products (not identified) sprayed on the papers to give them photo quality (in the factory) ...

So my problem is summarized as follows:

1) Considering the mechanical capacities of the printer, one can theoretically print on a width of 210 mm, without limit of length. The point is that if I don't use the original "CD / DVD" cart, I get an error signal
corresponding to a non-conforming "paper" size, despite the use of "Gutenprint" (Linux printing driver) supposed to offer many more configuration possibilities.
So :

- How to configure the printer,

and / or

- How to deceive the print media sensors (cut sheet, AR feeder, roller, front loading, CD cart ...)

and / or

- What changes should be made to the printer?

2) What product, if any, to apply for good ink performance?

I also walked the forum "t-shirt print" http://www.t-hirtforums.com/ but it mainly deals with heavy modifications on the printers used, for direct printing on
textile . For my part, no need to dismantle everything: the mechanical capabilities of the R1800 amply suffice for me. On the other hand, the Englishman and I understand each other, but that's just right.
Suffice to say that it is comparable to Chinese, so little that it is written a little too colloquially or even in short or SMS ...

Also, any help will be welcome and would be greatly appreciated, especially if the problem happens to be solved ...
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by Alain G » 09/08/13, 15:10

Hello Louphil!


The problem with direct printing on an acrylic medium such as a CD is that this inkjet printer does not use solvents like much more expensive industrial printers.

The simple printing of a date on a plastic container requires a complex system of solvent and ink and the complexity comes from the cleaning necessary before and after each use which is done automatically and works only in monochrome.

The easiest way for you is to use a CD with one side already processed ready for printing like on this link:

http://www.xraystore.fr/7937-cd-rom-pre ... nites.html

This is what I use for my DVDs because I can write directly on it but it also allows inkjet printing as you want.

See you!
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by louphil » 09/08/13, 18:25

Thank you Alain, for your answer and this link ...

But apparently you misunderstood my problem : Wink: .

My goal is not to print on CD / DVD (that I already knew how to do), but on plexiglass, pmma, aluminum, or other larger format than CD. The pieces I want to print can be up to 60-70 cm long and up to 10 cm wide.
This is why my problem is located on the one hand on the side of fixing the ink, and on the other hand on the dimensions to be accepted by the printer.

If in a pinch, I found water-based decal paper in A3 format, it would not be bad, or better in rolls ...

The disadvantages of water decal is that it is long to implement and delicate: as soon as you have a slightly large surface, you are quickly confronted with recalcitrant bubbles difficult to cleanly eliminate ...

In fact, I was thinking above all of a preliminary treatment (primer or other) of the plexiglass before printing with a transparent product, like the treatment of paper with a "coating sauce" to give it photo quality.
Indeed, the coating of the paper avoids too much absorption of the ink (like a blotter), and fixes the ink at the place where it has been deposited, in this "printing" layer. ...

On an industrial scale, the processes differ widely from an individual or craft approach and mine aimed at other solutions, namely the pre-treatment of the support.
There are many special transparent "inkjet" plastic supports. They certainly underwent a treatment to fix the ink ...

Water decal paper is a thin layer of plastic on paper, right? What is the nature of this plastic on which you can print in inkjet? What treatment did he undergo to fix the ink?

In any case, it makes me believe that the possibility exists, in the same way, besides that there are transparent sheets printable in ink, for overhead projector or others ...
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by BobFuck » 09/08/13, 18:48

They also print the holes.

http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/

Prices are not theft ...
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by louphil » 09/08/13, 21:27

I visited the site, installed the software, but if the site reports impressions, the software does not give the possibility. Only engraving, unless I hurt (or too quickly) overflight the possibilities of the software. Pity ...

However, a piece of plexiglass (or acrylic) does not cost much, and the holes, I can do them myself (at least the round holes). So, in the end, this box will sell me dear for what I am quite capable of doing myself for almost nothing ... and I would still have no impression ...

At worst, if I had drilling other than round, I would have a laser cut. I have a provider who takes not very expensive, and who accepts that I provide the material.

For printing on plexiglass, I can content myself with water decalcomania. The results are very good. But not easy to install correctly, and dimensions requiring at least the roll (A3 too short). But to find some ...
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by Alain G » 09/08/13, 21:57

Good evening Louphil!

If you tell me exactly what you want to do, maybe I can help you!

If you don't want to reveal your process publicly you can always send it to me in a private message.

Do you want to see your print on the opposite side of the print and is transparency an important factor?

See you!
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by BobFuck » 09/08/13, 22:26

louphil wrote:I visited the site, installed the software, but if the site reports impressions, the software does not give the possibility. Only engraving, unless I hurt (or too quickly) overflight the possibilities of the software. Pity ...


It is machined (for example text, logo, symbol) then they pass the paint which remains in the recesses (classic method for the front sides of devices). It's not printing (few colors, etc.).

> and the holes, I can do them myself

OK, if you have a drill press and need only round holes, it is more advantageous to DIY!

Otherwise, sticking a printed transparency on the front, it does not?

There is the toner transfer method for amateur printed circuits: laser printing, put the sheet on the printing circuit, an iron stroke, and remove the paper by soaking in water. I never tried but it seems that it works. It will probably also work with color toner ... to be tested.
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by louphil » 09/08/13, 22:45

No, Alain, there are no secrets to protect.

Until now I made my front side with water decal paper:

- 1) I printed my designs backwards on the decal (values ​​and scale of values ​​around the potentiometers or buttons). Ex: Volume, 123456 ...

- 2) I glued the decals in the right places, and let it dry. I thus obtained my reading of values ​​through plexi. (yes, transparency adds an effect that I would like to keep)

- 3) Finally, a stroke of paint over the decals forms the background ...

you can see examples (few for the moment) here http://www.wunic.fr/

However, I have so far limited myself to "monochrome" but would like to decorate the facades with images eventually.
It is for this reason that direct printing would be much more convenient and precise.
Indeed, until then, I had only handled small areas that only provided information on one item (name and setting ranges: "treble, 1 ...") and placed them one by one. It was easy.

If I want a background image by this process, the surface to be applied will correspond to that of the front face. And there, to put it will not be cooked at all.

This is the reason why I try to print direct, even if I have to apply a layer of white paint over it to have a contrast comparable to printing on paper.

@Bob:

The water-based decal paper works very well for small surfaces, For large surfaces, I will lack precision on the one hand: when it is soaked, wet for the transfer from the original support to the recipient, it is somewhat "elastic", and my holes will no longer be marked in the right places. On the other hand, there may also be air bubbles that are difficult to remove.

Otherwise, the idea of ​​toner transfer is good. I did not think about it . I thought it only worked in monochrome. But it seems to me that the transfer requires heat (iron or other?). And the plexi may not like ...
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by chatelot16 » 10/08/13, 00:05

office printers are too good! huge print finesse greater than you need, but only use water-based ink unable to work on plexiglass

what would be needed is the inkjet machine used in the industry to mark all the packaging including the laying dates of them

these printing machines have a lower resolution but work with ink that looks like paint ... alas I do not manage to have precise information: the merchant of professional material does not want to inform the one who n don't have a thousand euros to put

another solution: self-adhesive: I experimented with an original method: print on a photocopy machine on siliconized paper: stick a self-adhesive film on this paper: the film of the printed image is put in glue, then stick the self-adhesive film on the room

as the print is in the glue it is under the film well protected from wear, and very durable

at the time I did this with a copious photo cannon with cold pressure roller ... by blocking the roller pressure system so as not to crush the thunder in the silicone paper

with a current non-tampered laser printer, the tonner is a little fixed in the silicone paper and does not completely transfer into the adhesive of the self-adhesive film, but it still works well

and if this system suits you it deserves to tamper with a laser printer by removing the fixing roller
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by BobFuck » 10/08/13, 00:32

an other idea :
cover the substrate with a water-based varnish (transparent acrylic for example)
bake in the printer before drying (varnish still fresh)

the varnish should fix the ink, it should try to see ...
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