The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2

Humanitarian catastrophes (including resource wars and conflicts), natural, climate and industrial (except nuclear or oil forum fossil and nuclear energy). Pollution of the sea and oceans.
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Exnihiloest
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Exnihiloest » 17/01/19, 22:05

to be chafoin wrote: Carrots, carrots! A carrot of ice is a sample ...

Yes, yes, I know, I had read wrong, sorry.

to be chafoin wrote:... This record of temperatures shows (precisely) that the beginning of the last warming begins at the same time as the fundamental historical transformations of the industrialization of Western societies ...

Things are not so clear.
On the curve, we see that the rise begins a little before 1600, non-industrial time, and that at the beginning of the 20ème century, it reaches the same level that it had towards 1150. Nothing therefore indicates a particular effect related to the industrialization of the XNIXXth century, and all the more so as the slopes of descent and ascent until the beginning of the 19ème are approximately equivalent. This rise can not be affirmed of anthropic origin.
After the beginning of the 20ème, the rise is more important, but a correlation is still not a proof of cause and effect (for example we had very active solar cycles in 20ème century), nor the curve of consumption of chewing gum in the 20th century, in phase with that of the number of elevators installed, shows that chewing gum favors lifts.
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Christophe » 17/01/19, 22:10

izentrop wrote:
"François Gervais represents science, he has a speech that resembles science, he gives scientific references. All of this can mislead the uninformed public".


All manipulators (and manipulators) of the world have exactly the same technique ... it is also widely used in politics (and not only among extremes ...)! : Cheesy:
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by sen-no-sen » 18/01/19, 11:07

Exnihiloest wrote:(...) no more than the consumption curve of chewing gum in the 20th century, in phase with that of the number of elevators installed, shows that chewing gum favors lifts.



Except that the marketing of chewing gum goes back to 1872 and the first public elevator in 1857.Les two inventions, unrelated between the one and the other one nevertheless a common point: the industrial revolution and are corollary: the very strong increase of the dissipation of energy.
In the case of the RCA it is precisely the violent increase of this dissipation of energy caused by the combustion of fossil product which is incriminated ...
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Leo Maximus » 18/01/19, 17:30

breizh-info.com is also doing it with the famous video by Itzvan Marko: "Why the theory of global warming must make us laugh ".

https://www.breizh-info.com/2019/01/03/ ... rire-video

9:00 am to 10:47 am: During the so-called "Roman and Medieval climatic optimum" temperatures in the Alps were much higher than today and this for several centuries (see graphs).
Marko 1.jpg
Marko 1.jpg (31.18 KIO) Accessed 2432 times


Marko 2.jpg
Marko 2.jpg (31.02 KIO) Accessed 2432 times

So, I wonder how Ötzi, who died 5200 years ago, and found imprisoned in the ice of the Alps in 1991 at 3200 m altitude, was able to keep for hundreds of years in the heat of "Roman climatic optimums and medieval "where the average temperatures would have been higher than today ... Without this ice which allowed its conservation for 5200 years, it would have disappeared quickly, decomposed, eaten by raptors ...

The "Roman and medieval climatic optima" probably existed but the warming was very far from reaching the current level, Ötzi is proof of this.

It's not the theory of global warming that makes me laugh, it's the bullshit told by climatosceptics. : Lol: But I should rather cry ... :(

Ötzi is kept today in cold room at -6 ° because his body had begun to deteriorate quickly after his discovery in 1991.

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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Exnihiloest » 18/01/19, 21:38

Christophe wrote:
izentrop wrote:
"François Gervais represents science, he has a speech that resembles science, he gives scientific references. All of this can mislead the uninformed public".


All manipulators (and manipulators) of the world have exactly the same technique ... it is also widely used in politics (and not only among extremes ...)! : Cheesy:

Unacceptable in an honest debate, these slanderous remarks.
François Gervais is a respectable physicist, and certainly has more skills in this area than you who judge it from the top of your arbitrary (I could be wrong, in which case the presentation of your scientific background and the evidence that allow you to say that François Gervais is wrong and is a manipulator, will be welcome).

His skills allow him to reach the conclusions he tells us, and it is because he is convinced that he makes them known, certainly not to deceive us. Yes he may be wrong, one may be in good faith and be mistaken, but then you will need a somewhat stronger argument as an objection than a denigration of his person.

You and Izentrop only have the authoritative argument to make, your method is "François Gervais is wrong since he is a climate skeptic", and "the IPCC is right since everyone is saying it everywhere". However, when it comes to data analysis, apart from regurgitating majority production, we don't see you much.
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Exnihiloest » 18/01/19, 21:55

Leo Maximus wrote:...
So, I wonder how Ötzi, who died 5200 years ago, and found trapped in the ice of the Alps in 1991 at 3200 m altitude, was able to keep for hundreds of years in the heat of "Roman climatic optimums. and medieval "...

You gave the answer yourself: it was at 3200m. Even during the "Roman and medieval climatic optimum", it has never been said that coconut trees grew at 3200m. :) . All this is very relative, we even know that if the datiers could grow in Greece, however they did not give fruit.

At 3200m, I do not know, but at 3800m altitude in the Alps and 10m deep, even today, the soil is between -4,5 ° and -1,5 °.
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Leo Maximus » 18/01/19, 22:48

We're not there at all ... It's not about that. : Shock: No matter the altitude, 1000, 3200 or 4000 meters, depth and temperature of the soil. :)

According to climate-skeptics the temperature was much higher than today during these episodes of warming: Bronze Age, climatic optimum Roman and medieval. But everything proves that Ötzi had been trapped in his ice since 5200 years. And it's the current unprecedented global warming so since at least 5200 years that has allowed its discovery.

Ötzi proves that these famous episodes of warming have experienced only a slight rise in temperatures, uncommon with the current warming. Ötzi was trapped in the snow and then in the ice in the days following his death. He then remained frozen for 5200 years until an unprecedented global warming caused his body to appear in 1991.

Climate-skeptics do not like to hear about Ötzi, not at all ... : Mrgreen: This is the negation of these episodes of strong warming without fossil CO2.
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by to be chafoin » 19/01/19, 01:24

Exnihiloest wrote:Things are not so clear.
It is true that things are not so clear.We could not possibly prove in the sense that you understand it the anthropic origin of the climatic changes that we live. In any case I am unable to give you this demonstration in the format of this forum. There are, in my opinion, many people and many specialists (but here too you are right this is not in itself an argument of authority), a set of clues and arguments both on the warming and its consequences (temperature measurements, the discovery of Ötzi, climatic, geological and biological observations, degradations of the living, the seers are red ...) than on its human causes:

worsening of human impacts on the environment from before industrialization but with several changes in scale, "jumps" during the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries - a recent example: who would doubt that what is called the globalization with the considerable increase in a few years of international trade by sea, air ... has not heavily polluted the environment and participated in the increase in CO2, to heights that cannot be conceived for companies of "subsistence" agriculture where the majority of trade network is measured in a horse day ..? -, deforestation, machinery, exploitation of fossil fuels, explosion in consumption ...

All this and many other things may explain why we end up being a little sensitive when we are spoken to, in front of "fable", when we are told that it is laughable.

Finally if we can not prove it to you, and even if because of that some people may hesitate, have doubts, in front of all these elements we must choose to follow the path of the father of the family: I am not sure but there may be a risk, do what it takes to protect my children, and try to prevent the degradation of the future by any possible action today.
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by izentrop » 19/01/19, 01:31

Leo Maximus wrote:We're not there at all ... It's not about that. : Shock: No matter the altitude, 1000, 3200 or 4000 meters, depth and temperature of the soil. :)

According to climate-skeptics the temperature was much higher than today during these episodes of warming: Bronze Age, climatic optimum Roman and medieval. But everything proves that Ötzi had been trapped in his ice since 5200 years.
Phew! I thought for a while we had one more : Mrgreen:
A more precise dating by accelerator mass spectrometry makes it possible to estimate the age before calibration at 4 546 ± 15 years https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi ... 9ristiques
http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/disciplines/s ... ct4_d1.htm
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by ENERC » 19/01/19, 09:19

Great anything that history of glaciers and Hannibal.
He passed by Savine pass or Clapier pass at 2477 m.

I often go on a hike to this pass and I have never seen ice, nor even snow. Italian side, it's south and hot. On the Maurienne Valley, there is a well-sheltered plain of altitude which heats well, then a steep descent towards the valley.
It is passable for elephants from mid May to November.
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