The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2

Humanitarian catastrophes (including resource wars and conflicts), natural, climate and industrial (except nuclear or oil forum fossil and nuclear energy). Pollution of the sea and oceans.
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by sen-no-sen » 16/12/20, 15:55

ABC2019 wrote:uh, we can discuss it, but what has to do with the RC? if the CO2 did not absorb in the infrared, there would be no greenhouse effect and no RC, and the problem of energy resources would be the same! there are surely threads more suited to this question.


The relationship with RCA? I explained upstream that the fight against RCA was justified, regardless of its precise consequences, because of our need to free ourselves (in part) from fossil fuels.
It is moreover, strangely enough, the most dependent countries and the least producers of black gold which seem the most quick to put forward this fight to "save the climate".
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Yool » 16/12/20, 16:08

ABC2019 wrote:precisely if it looms willy-nilly, there is no need to reduce them even more.


The anticipation you know? When we know we are heading towards a problem, we do everything to avoid it, right?
Peak oil is inevitable. Even if we are not talking about the RC, since obviously we will never agree on it, shouldn't the tendency be to start getting used to going slowly without oil? Is it better to wait until the last moment without having any alternatives, when resources run out? Our entire economy, our way of producing, of living depends on oil. It's still interesting to have a plan B, isn't it?

We can draw a parallel with the peak of phosphorus which may be reached in 2030. If we do not change the habits of agricultural production, if we do not push further research, for example on agroecology, there will be food shortages.
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by ABC2019 » 16/12/20, 17:17

yool wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:precisely if it looms willy-nilly, there is no need to reduce them even more.


The anticipation you know? When we know we are heading towards a problem, we do everything to avoid it, right?

no not at all, it depends on the cost of what to do, again. Otherwise you would never take a car to "do everything to avoid an accident". Or parail for drugs, we check before that they are not too dangerous and that there is indeed a therapeutic zone where the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Peak oil is inevitable. Even if we are not talking about the RC, since obviously we will never agree on it, shouldn't the tendency be to start getting used to going slowly without oil? Is it better to wait until the last moment without having any alternatives, when resources run out? Our entire economy, our way of producing, of living depends on oil. It's still interesting to have a plan B, isn't it?

well yes of course you can prepare for the depletion which will become inevitable. It does not imply that we have to end it sooner than expected. It's like old age and death, you can prepare yourself for it to live it as serenely as possible, that doesn't mean you shorten your days either.

In this context, it seems obvious to most people .... and I don't have to explain to them why this is normal, oddly!


We can draw a parallel with the peak of phosphorus which may be reached in 2030. If we do not change the habits of agricultural production, if we do not push further research, for example on agroecology, there will be food shortages.

It does not mean either that it is absolutely necessary to leave phosphorus underground if there is still some left.

The problems you pose are problems linked to depletion, it has nothing to do with CO2 and warming, just how to deal with the finitude of resources (which is a real question, I do not deny it) .
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Forhorse » 16/12/20, 18:40

The stone age did not stop for lack of stones
: Mrgreen:
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by ABC2019 » 16/12/20, 19:26

sen-no-sen wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:uh, we can discuss it, but what has to do with the RC? if the CO2 did not absorb in the infrared, there would be no greenhouse effect and no RC, and the problem of energy resources would be the same! there are surely threads more suited to this question.


The relationship with RCA? I explained upstream that the fight against RCA was justified, regardless of its precise consequences, because of our need to free ourselves (in part) from fossil fuels.

yes but no, because the fight for RCA requires that we do without even more fossils, that is to say that we even burn less than what we can extract, when it will already be enough complicated like that so as not to add more, for a gain in the end quite low (because between 1,5 and 2 ° C, it's still not catastrophic).
In any case, it appears more and more clearly that the goal of 1,5 ° C is unrealistic. When we have passed it, we will stop basking ourselves with it (noticing that the world turns as before); And when we have passed the peak of fossil production, we will realize that in any case the total amount of fossils will not be that high, that the BAU scenarios are totally unrealistic, and we will mainly take care of treating the socio-economic problems resulting from the crises (as currently), the discourse on the RC will become the least of the concerns this time.
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by ENERC » 16/12/20, 19:37

ABC2019 wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:uh, we can discuss it, but what has to do with the RC? if the CO2 did not absorb in the infrared, there would be no greenhouse effect and no RC, and the problem of energy resources would be the same! there are surely threads more suited to this question.


The relationship with RCA? I explained upstream that the fight against RCA was justified, regardless of its precise consequences, because of our need to free ourselves (in part) from fossil fuels.

yes but no, because the fight for RCA requires that we do without even more fossils, that is to say that we even burn less than what we can extract, when it will already be enough complicated like that so as not to add more, for a gain in the end quite low (because between 1,5 and 2 ° C, it's still not catastrophic).
In any case, it appears more and more clearly that the goal of 1,5 ° C is unrealistic. When we have passed it, we will stop basking ourselves with it (noticing that the world turns as before); And when we have passed the peak of fossil production, we will realize that in any case the total amount of fossils will not be that high, that the BAU scenarios are totally unrealistic, and we will mainly take care of treating the socio-economic problems resulting from the crises (as currently), the discourse on the RC will become the least of the concerns this time.


Expect that in fact:
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by ABC2019 » 16/12/20, 19:49

ENERC wrote:Expect that in fact:

what exactly are you proposing then? hasten this moment? tomorrow ?
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by sen-no-sen » 16/12/20, 20:59

ABC2019 wrote:
yes but no, because the fight for RCA requires that we do without even more fossils, that is to say that we even burn less than what we can extract, when it will already be enough complicated like that so as not to add more, for a gain in the end quite low (because between 1,5 and 2 ° C, it's still not catastrophic).


With the all-oil peak, we will move towards a roller coaster-type economic scenario with a two-step waltz between economic lag and the price of oil. : Arrowd:
Image
Illustration of the production (top), and the price (bottom) of oil. It's really yoyotte! | http://www.manicore.com

In other words, an instability of the economy with a very violent social impact.
Limiting fossil fuels as much as possible is therefore not only an ecological issue, it is also a geostrategic, political and social commitment.

And when we have passed the peak of fossil production, we will realize that anyway the total amount of fossils will not be that high, (...)


What do you mean by not that high?
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Exnihiloest » 16/12/20, 21:01

Forhorse wrote:...
You chose to contradict ...
You even chose ...
So you go against the majority ideas ...
...

Discussion without any interest.

"Elite minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, mediocre minds discuss people."
Jules Romains
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Re: The fable of anthropogenic warming and the fight against CO2




by Forhorse » 16/12/20, 22:29

Exnihiloest wrote:Discussion without any interest.



This is precisely my point ...

But that does not answer my question, what do you gain by promoting your climate-skeptic ideas?
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