Vaccinations and health ... for or against?

[BaudouinLabrique]

I know two nursing nurses with a long career behind them (who do not know them) and working in different nursing homes; their observation: elderly people vaccinated are significantly more affected by the flu than others!
This shows on the one hand that the vaccines are not effective (cf. report of the French Senate in June 2007)
and on the other hand, that vaccination weakens immunity to the point of seeing more vaccinees fall ill with the flu!

Always this mania to take the experience of a quidam and make it a generality.

It is not stupidly to take the quidam experience: the simple and only fact of this observation of more flu in the vaccinated flu makes deeply stupid any claim of any effectiveness at all to the vaccine!

What are you trying to demonstrate with your permanent disinformation?

You are the ones who misinform: see the scientific sources in my previous post and in particular the meta-analysis published in the Official Year Books of the Commonwealth of Australia!

[Janic]

Izentrop

I do not seek bickering, only that this subject is not squatted by misinformation.

That's a funny one !

Remundo wrote:
Personally I was to maintain the DT-Polyo and not to make hexavalent, then 11-valents compulsory, especially on very small babies whose immune system is fragile.

Ok, nothing prevents us from thinking what we think, but the competent bodies are unanimous.

Which are the competent bodies? Big pharma which decides and imposes the results of its studies which the governments do not control, which governments have been and are still influenced by experts with conflicts of interest from lobbies.

thibr "
personally I would not want to find myself in the situation of a parent who loses his child for lack of vaccination

Your reaction is understandable because it is conditioned by this fear that you express and the secret hope that these vaccinations are useful and effective (because the general public has no medical competence most of the time) until the parent in question finds himself with his kid victim of one or more vaccines and at this time the parents say to themselves: Ah, if I had known ! ”Because the doctors take care not to describe the totality of the serious side effects of the vaccines and registered on the product, because they say: if I read the serious side effects listed on the vaccine, parents would refuse to have their baby vaccinated »

Remundo
many diseases have been eradicated thanks to vaccines

Is that so! Give me one!

and allow better overall health for the population.

Unfortunately, this is just a mantra repeated over and over and that no parent has ever checked out, contenting themselves with naively believing in the speech of lobbies by governments interposed. The usual carrot or stick!

those who reject vaccines en masse are just as wrong as those who say they are safe.

This is why the associations which inform about the disadvantages (since governments only present the advantages) claim the right of conscience guaranteed by the general laws of non-totalitarian countries.

The truth is in between ...

There is no between two: either you are vaccinated or you are not! Either you pass between the risks and get out of it unscathed, or you muffle and you regret being one more victim. See what happens to the young girls victims of Gardasil (and them that I quote) and tomorrow it may be your daughter's turn if you have one!
What is regrettable (but I did not adhere to the theses on the vaccine risks from the start) is the lack of information on the serious risks which are not indicated to the parents.

these endless controversies tend to distress me.

Because you have not (or not yet) been in the victim situation (or your children, like those indicated), because you have been OBLIGED to practice a dangerous technique from its Pasteurian origins.
Fortunately, most children do not show immediate serious signs, even if these appear later and doctors (like parents) do not directly relate to the medical procedure performed (eg the aluminum which is revealed months, or even years after injection) is one of the main observations made in homeopathy, moreover.
Thus during the vaccinations in the military service and on the only moments when a small part of conscripts were vaccinated, (I was there, not on one one says): twice in a row there was a death immediately after the injection . Then tell the parents that it is for the glory of France like the few guys who are being taken down now; but they are volunteers, having decided, despite the possible risks. It is different when it is a constraint. These two guys died of their vaccination, had no right to a funeral with the whole tintouin, but they were sent very discreetly to their grieving homes. It doesn't just happen to others!
Now if you (parents in general!) Have carefully studied the subject, its advantages and disadvantages, then and only then the responsibility of each one is committed in all conscience and knowledge of cause, which is not currently the case for Most people.
And finally: what the vaccine lobbies call anti vaccines are only associations of victims, denied and abandoned to their unfortunate fate and who come together to obtain, very difficultly, this recognition of victim (the majority being children).

[BaudouinLabrique]

If nobody here is able and for good reason, to bring some tiny beginning of proof concerning the alleged efficacy of vaccines and in particular against the flu,
on the other hand, as Sylvie Simon notes below (multiple and convincing supporting evidence),
"There is evidence of the ineffectiveness of the flu vaccine".

Flu vaccines: better than I could write, here is an excerpt from Sylvie Simon's article (“Your Health” magazine November 2008 N ° 109)

« Since 1974, hundreds of studies have confirmed the ineffectiveness of this vaccine. Most have been published in prestigious newspapers such as The Lancet, the Weekly Epidemiological Bulletin (BEH), the Doctor's Panorama, without changing the fixed attitude of the public authorities.

In Japan, where mass influenza vaccination for schoolchildren was made compulsory in 1976, the only program in the world to suppress any flu epidemic, the percentage of people affected by influenza rose from 5 per 100 at 000 per 60. These figures not only show a complete absence of protective effect from vaccination, but even an aggravating effect.

Recently, an international congress called "The Cochrane Project" was held in Rome, in order to take stock of the vaccination against influenza for the past 51 years. In the report which included 260 studies on 000 children, lhe researchers concluded that there was not the slightest evidence that vaccination of children between 6 and 23 months of age had any effect..

There is evidence of the ineffectiveness of the flu vaccine.
As for older people, after reviewing 64 studies, the Cochrane group concluded that no study has shown the efficacy of the vaccine. (Cf. The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, "Vaccines for preventing influenza" - 1-2006.)

Another study, conducted to determine whether the incidence of influenza had decreased in Ontario after the introduction of a free immunization campaign for 12 million people in 2000, and published in the American medical journal Vaccine of April 5, 2006, reached the same conclusions.

All influenza cases between 1990 and 2005 have been evaluated and Dr. Dianne Groll, who conducted this research at the University of Ottawa, found that, when the campaign started in 1990, the incidence was 109 cases per 100 people. However, after the start of the campaign, the incidence had increased to 000 cases. Thus, despite this intense vaccination, the influence of the disease had not diminished, quite the contrary: "This campaign has cost Ontario taxpayers more than $ 200 million, without reducing the incidence. of disease. " [Cf. the testimonies that I gave in this sense of the two male nurses]

In France, it is difficult to assess the cost of our influenza vaccination campaigns, but it also represents a fortune, especially since the undesirable effects, which are very expensive for the State, are not negligible. »

Sylvie SIMON (“Your Health” magazine November 2008 N ° 109)

HOW CAN PRO-VACCINES AMONG YOU STILL PERSIST IN SUCH A DENIAL?

Lire aussi The 10 Biggest Lies About Vaccination by Sylvie Simon.

[Remundo]

rest assured, apart from the 2 - 3 polemicists on duty, nobody reads this thread.

[Janic]

rest assured, apart from the 2 - 3 polemicists on duty, nobody reads this thread.

if we believe the count of "seen" that amounts to more than 90.000, all the same and the mini poll shows a very divided opinion, almost 50/50.
I am therefore awaiting a revelation:

Remundo
many diseases have been eradicated thanks to vaccines

Is that so! Give me one!

PS: as much as I am pleasantly surprised by your logical, comparative spirit, on tangible, controllable elements, concerning mechanics, (it was also my job) as much I am surprised by this non analysis in this particular field of health, but it may be because you are not interested in the subject! in this case ... it is understandable that you do not read this thread!

[Remundo]

I will not be treated by great thinkers who do not even understand that vaccines have saved countless lives ...

as i said before, i'm not blissful at over-vaccination either, it's a delicate health problem. The protection of the greatest number statistically leads to rarer cases where vaccination is harmful.

and above all I don't have the time like you to throw three-layer sandwiches and come back to the subject 100 times ...

I even itch to temporarily lock this thread, you see? you all start to get drunk on me.

[BaudouinLabrique]

I even itch to temporarily lock this thread, you see? you all start to get drunk on me.

Censorship (locking the subject) is certainly an easy temptation, especially when you want to stay in the single, dominant thought, medically correct ...

Hippocratic oath, hypocritical oath in this case?
« I will not be guilty ofno harm neither d'' no injustice "
this part of the Hippocratic oath is then flouted in particular with regard to vaccination, given the sometimes fatal side effects, but which political decision-maker is he really concerned with, especially since he enjoys the assent of the majority of the population, like the sheep of Panurge?

The big media are in the hands of big financial groups and in particular pharmaceuticals and the sheep drink their words:



I always wondered then how the pro-vaccine doctors manage with their conscience, since they are nevertheless committed to respect without exception the oath of Hippocrates !!!

In such conditions, how is it that one can put on the market, have the medical profession prescribe substances with “side” effects which sometimes kill young children!

Few people know that Hippocrates said:
« Let your diet be your medicine »

However, faced with " the disease industry "As the famous microbiologist, Professor René Dubois, who discovered the first antibiotic of the name, already called me" A true disease industry "" Is it not an illusion to proclaim that the current state of health is the best that has reigned in history, when an ever increasing number of people have to resort to drugs and the doctor to face the problems everyday ? "(In The mirage of health, p. 21)

[BaudouinLabrique]

I will not be treated by great thinkers who do not even understand that vaccines have saved countless lives ....

Prove it !

However, as demonstrated very widely, there are tons of studies that show that vaccines are not only not effective and worse that they can develop what they claimed to protect!

We are still waiting for the smallest study that proves the effectiveness of a single small vaccine!

Moreover Scientists announce that the evidence for the flu vaccine is biased "

[Janic]

I will not be treated by great thinkers who do not even understand that vaccines have saved countless lives ...

That you are unable (since it is improbable even with the official documents of the INVS), to be able to cite a single case!
We can't blame you for that! As long as fear dominates, reason no longer prevails

as i said before, i'm not blissful at over-vaccination either, it's a delicate health problem.

Delicate, to say the least! There has been almost no deadly measles in the last decade, no more than tuberculosis, even less tetanus and no more smallpox. Smallpox and BCG were removed from the obligations since it no longer affected anyone among the French. Our neighboring countries having removed all obligations made the same observation; despite everything we vaccinate our babies against tetanus which is not immunizing, (then a vaccine even less) and yet and above all why? Because people are afraid given the images which are shown to them of nonexistent cases in our country in babies, etc… [*]

The protection of the greatest number statistically leads to rarer cases where vaccination is harmful.

Here then ! It is a pure fallacy! Look at the graphs from the beginning of the available statistics and find some semblance of confirmation. On the contrary the rates increased as the vaccination was required! What has reduced the cases is the significant progress in hygiene, especially in the cities, and thus reducing the number of related pathologies such as tuberculosis, the discovery of antibiotics and other medical advances.

and above all I don't have the time like you to throw three-layer sandwiches and come back to the subject 100 times ...

Tell yourself then that tomorrow you may be among these families of victims and your interest will increase accordingly.
If autism continues to increase exponentially, it is estimated that in 2032, at the current rate of progression, it will be one autistic out of 2 following vaccines, in particular, and especially MMR on which one of the most CDC senior official admitted having lied, cheated, to hide the reality and during that time, it vaccinates with flying colors! Is this one of these excesses that you indicate?
Moreover! Our laws protect people from rape and punish offenders and everyone understands it. However (and without justifying such a criminal act)
it remains outside, no introduction into the blood, but, strangely there we deeply hurt an individual unable to defend himself, poisoning him (like the Nazi doctors) and no one reacts and even finds it good ! Where has the consciousness of good and evil gone? What was the purpose of the Nuremberg trials and professions of faith never before?

[*] 13 cases from 0 to 49 years old, incidence 0.03pm (and not from 10 in 10 years) as for the rest
9 cases from 5 to 59 years: 4 from 60 to 69 years, etc ... and over 12 years, so divide by 12 to get the annual rate. This is false statistics (not misleading so far) for a very specific purpose: to vaccinate babies!
http://invs.santepubliquefrance.fr/fr.. ... iologiques

to also think about: "

In Norway there is a significant development of alternative medicine, which is available in all municipal public services, with the support of the National Center for Research in Complementary and Alternative Medicine (Norwegian acronym: NAFKAM) which has its own department within the Faculty of Medicine of the University of Tromso. It is run by 21 people (12 researchers and 9 administrative).

NAFKAM stimulates, organizes and coordinates Norwegian research in Complementary and Alternative Medicine. The center develops training, consultations, national and international cooperation (especially with China) as well as public information."

Like in Switzerland!
it's not for tomorrow in France!

[BaudouinLabrique]

I will not be treated by great thinkers who do not even understand that vaccines have saved countless lives ...

That you are unable (since it is improbable even with the official documents of the INVS), to be able to cite a single case!

Besides, how do the pro-vaccines explain the following and which is based on concrete observations:

1 ° Calling to note that in countries like Norway where vaccination is not compulsory (since 1995), there are no more patients than where it is compulsory!

2 ° Hang on! For Norway: "Overall, a better state of health than that of other European countries, with the exception of cardiovascular diseases for which Norway is badly placed. It's probably related to nutrition issues."(Source)
Reminder of what Hippocrates advocated, yet considered the father of medicine (!): "Let your diet be your best medicine.

If this is not in itself a disavowal of the alleged effectiveness of vaccines as legitimately an admission of its harmfulness, that the supporters of vaccination at all costs explain this to me!