Take care with plants: it's over !? (THMPD Europe)

[Picolo]

You're right Picolo,
So check out this site:
http://medicament.sosblog.fr/Premier-bl ... -b1-p3.htm

iatrogeny (illness and death caused by the doctor)
"France holds the world record for drug-related deaths,"
The mortality rate linked to prescription drugs is 10 times higher than in neighboring countries and an astonishing 20 to 50 times higher in people over 75

Good reading

Ah la la ... Is it a habit to post links that you don't read? How do you do it? Google search with the ad hoc keywords, copy of the first link saying "go see!" ...

How sad...

0) To answer this pretty off topic. The complete quotation is taken from a newspaper article dated 1998 ... It is already quite young. In addition, we are compared to our European neighbors (check with our American friends to laugh a little).

Oh, and here's a larger piece of quote:
[quote = mediacment.sosblog.fr] A nonscientific survey of experts on both sides of the Atlantic found universal agreement that loopholes in the world's most comprehensive government-subsidized health care system are chiefly responsible for the catastrophic explosion in drug use.

"Catastrophe" is no exaggeration. France "holds the world record for deaths due to medication," Wurmser notes. Its prescription drug-related mortality rate is 10 times higher than in neighboring countries and an astounding 20-to-50 times higher for those older than 75. [/ Quote]
So, in this kind of study "non-scientific" means shit (imagine IPSOS which will ask you if your loved one had taken any medication before dying and you will have as much precision). I am certainly exaggerating, but to insist that the study was unscientific is often to emphasize a lack of rigor.


To resume the thread of the subject:
1) Another blow of rotting logic: I speak about the European legislation which finally considers the plants like a medicine with all the corresponding advantages for the consumer and you divide joyfully on the fact that the French would be those who die the most because of medication. It's dishonest, I think you will agree.

2) We must stop believing that what is natural is good for health. This is wrong and Europe has finally reacted. But if for you, the plants you took were effective and not dangerous, what are you afraid of?

3) In addition, carefully reread the text: nothing prevents a plant (if it is not toxic) to be called "herbal tea" if it has not shown any effect! So, when Aunt Gertrude wants her hawthorn decoction to sleep better and facilitate digestion, even if clinical tests have shown that hawthorn has no effect on the quality of sleep or digestion, you can still find it under form of herbal tea: the only difference for the consumer is that the manufacturer will no longer be able to say that such and such a plant is good for such and such a thing if it is not proven. If the plant is not poisonous, he can still sell it, but without indicating these fantasized benefits.

[Obamot]

Ah la la ... Is it a habit to post links that you don't read? How do you do it? Google search with the ad hoc keywords, copy of the first link saying "go see!" ...

... it all smells "vacation".

[Janic]

Picolo

Indeed, many phytotherapy products do not work, are poorly dosed or are toxic (yes, "natural" = / = "good for health"). Until now, you've been eating it without knowing if you were paying for 1) wind 2) a badly dosed product 3) a toxic product 4) a product that works.
This new regulation should be able to ensure that you always find yourself in a situation 4).

Everyone would like it to be so, unfortunately, this good intention risks being diverted from such a “noble” objective, while preserving the interests of pharmaceutical lobbies for their synthetic products, but also in order to be able to control the market. "Scalded cat fears cold water" If the intentions were as good as presumed, it would be enough to restore the profession of herbalist thus avoiding situations 1) 2) 3).

Nobody denies the effectiveness of synthetic drugs, the question is rather: what is their safety? Knowing that the more effective a drug, the more dangerous it is claimed by all medical scientists. In addition, each drug is tested isolated and never in synergy (positive or negative) with the thousands of other existing drugs (impossible to make, too expensive and too long). So even if a “herbal tea” could turn out to be insufficient or ineffective (which happens a few times) it does not present any potential danger. Can you cite a toxic phytotherapeutic product in the pharmacopoeia used for centuries by professionals such as herbalists?

(well yes, a dissatisfied or dead customer, it's very good for business isn't it?)

The criticism of current consumer products is that they have a short "life" in order to be quickly replaced, it's good for business but not for the consumer. For medical treatments it's the same thing, the solution of treating without curing keeps the consumer client as long as possible, it's good for business! (I'm not talking here about the doctor who applies what he has learned, but about the medical system that maintains itself, through the labs.)
Otherwise hope, naively, that it is not the user who will end up brown.

[the middle]

Janic,
You express better than I do, what I think.
Ho! how beautiful as a thought

[Did67]

So even if a “herbal tea” could turn out to be insufficient or ineffective (which happens a few times) it does not present any potential danger. Can you cite a toxic phytotherapeutic product in the pharmacopoeia used for centuries by professionals who were herbalists?

I come across this discussion today ... A little late!

Experience lived on me.

In 2007, I had a heart attack and I got out alive.

Lifelong treatments, including a drug supposed to reduce the level of "bad cholesterol" (LDL). Consequences: severe hepatitis, very high gamma-GT levels, alocollica liver ...

To the chagrin of my doctor, I decide on my own to stop the treatment (I tell him - "my body is mine - they don't like it, doctors).

Along with my "classic" cardiologist, I see a "different" doctor. So I have a complementary treatment with heaps of "pimlerpinpin" powder [we'll say it like that here].

So I stop the drug. My liver is recovering very slowly. Gamma-Gt levels and I don't know which other indicator are tending more and more towards the nome (without going into it first). But the LDL level flirts then exceeds the limit (very severe for a cardiac).

In short, I heal my liver and but I hoe with the fire cholesterol question.

My "other" doctor recommends red yeast rice extract (the yeast is red). Indeed, the internet is teeming with information that confirms that it lowers cholesterol. Do a search, and you'll see ... So I'm wrongly using the term pimplerpinpin pourdre here.

It is over-the-counter via the Internet from one of these "dietary supplement" suppliers. Since it is not a medicine; no MA, no prescription ...

Results 3 months later: the cholesterol drops and .... the indicators of suffering of my liver .... plunge (in the red !!! And beyond). In short, the same effects as the medicamet: lower cholesterol, the liver does not suppress!

So I decide to stop again. 6 months later: same effects: the liver "recovers" and cholesterol increases.

I say to myself: coincidence perhaps ... I redo a period with this red yeast rice (therefore "natural" n supposed to be "good" compared to this "nasty chemical drug") ...

3 months together, new bite: well, cholesterol down and ... indicators of liver condition up, my liver in pain!

I definitely stop the red yeast rice.

Since then, I have tried a chemical from another family: Cholsetrol stabilized downward and ... the liver which did not rule!

You conclude what you want. For me, it is obvious that a natural product can be dangerous and that a drug can be more harmless ...

And if you take some sage, be aware that usage regular in the continuous sense is ... toxic !!!

Afterwards, fight with "pgrand spricnicpes" and "beliefs".

Me, I hope to live a few more years, I have to treat myself "in the long term" and I made my choice. I continue to juggle two doctors and two medicines.

PS: A very very thorough Internet research allowed me to find a Canadian site which indicates this possible effect of the levuer de rzi rogge. Everywhere else, the hypothesis "it's natural therefore it's good" obscures everything!

[Janic]

did67
your testimony is particularly interesting, but it is often confused between extracted and concentrated products and the same product in its natural form whose dilution is not enough to create real problems. In addition, it is not enough to stop at ONE product, but to completely rethink one's lifestyle a few times.
Plants are not intended to work miracles, where chemistry has been held in check, but to gradually rebalance the body's natural mechanisms. However, we very often forget that food in its vegetable form is also plants whose health benefits are fundamental. Hippocrates said: "How to understand the diseases of man when we know nothing about food?
- Hippocrates, the father of medicine (460-377 BC) "
So I hope you find what suits you best!

[dedeleco]

Certain that plants are not good at all often, like digitalis, which kills and heals in small doses, at the origin of medicines identical to the plant, or the herbal tea of ​​oleander which kills with a leaf, not confuse with the bay laurel!

There are books on edible and inedible plants and those in between, not totally harmless (grapefruit) !!!


For cholesterol we currently know that it's more complicated than the light and heavy with a third thief to measure !!
Statins are declared very good and safe everywhere ???
http://www.fmcgastro.org/default.aspx?page=441
http://www.e-cardiologie.com/facteurs/f ... ies4.shtml
http://www.paperblog.fr/2481279/les-ome ... -lorgeril/
and the 100000 results on google for liver statin:
http://www.google.fr/search?client=fire ... 1&aql=&oq=


Otherwise what we eat over decades (trans, omega 3 and others) and doing very regular and gradually intense exercise is very effective in the long term.

Being lucky not to have these health problems, I have been applying it preventively for me since always !!
I thus avoid a big flop (of my grandfather) with a metabolic syndrome and remove sciatica, without any medication.

I am going to make my 200m vertical drop every day by running or pedaling with my wife, who has less courage.

Intense exercise scour the arteries and lungs preventively.

[Did67]

did67
your testimony is particularly interesting, but it is often confused between extracted and concentrated products and the same product in its natural form whose dilution is not enough to create real problems. In addition, it is not enough to stop at ONE product, but to completely rethink one's lifestyle a few times.

I understand that the debate concerns the question of whether or not Europe should regulate the use of so-called natural products.

The example I give shows that currently free sale , in FRance (I did not import, via Internet sites, I got e, sent by a French box, a product which can have, at least as much, a side effect that I measured by nalayses on myself...

Again, I let everyone conclude.

That we regulate "products", generally qualified as food supplements, thus seems to me a question of public health. And so, in itself, even if there are possible drifts, the European regulations do not shock me!

Just as I would like European nuclear regulations ...

PS: I did not say either that "all" European regulations are good or progress! Two examples:

- on organic, the European standard is below the AB label

- child labor is not prohibited in Europe under the age of 16 (there are possible exemptions in certain countries where this remains an "acquired" - Greece, for example and it seems to me one or the other other CEEC).

[Obamot]

As I have said dozens of times here already: "it depends for whom?"

Formic acid can very well prove to be very beneficial for one patient, and at worst cause an anaphylactic shock in another (ie the Egyptians who treated certain ailments with bee stings ...)

So even if a “herbal tea” could turn out to be insufficient or ineffective (which happens a few times) it does not present any potential danger. Can you cite a toxic phytotherapeutic product in the pharmacopoeia used for centuries by professionals who were herbalists?

I come across this discussion today ... A little late!

Experience lived on me.

In 2007, I had a heart attack and I got out alive.

Lifelong treatments, including a drug supposed to reduce the level of "bad cholesterol" (LDL). Consequences : severe hepatitis, very high gamma-GT levels, a liver cell...

This is formal proof that you urgently need a liver protective food bowl, the rest is ... homeopathic.

I had doubts after your posts and positions, but now I understand your case better (hence my MP,) but here we are in the "heart" of the subject: GAFFE !!! Prescriptions from your doctors are clearly off the plate. This is the whole problem of harmony between preventive medicine and "firefighter",

Because the metabolic problem is not there. You cannot take the methods of one to fight the effects or flaws of the other. QED.

You have to delete your squares: dot bar. (Excuse me if my words seem conclusive to you, but because I cannot say it clearly on the forum, by MP it's OK)

[dedeleco]

Info older than 4 years which indicates that this red yeast rice extract is identical to the drug with the same harmful effects on the liver and therefore almost useless with the addition of a ban in North America !!!
And the yeast plant statins (Chinese) have existed naturally long before the drug !!
And so it was predictable!
The artichoke is probably less harmful ????
The chemical is very often very close to plants which contain this chemical !!

It can be useful to find out on the internet and google about the medicines of doctors who sometimes do not learn enough to ask them specific questions and see if they know !!!
We are more concerned with our own health than the doctor !!!
For example :
http://www.fmcgastro.org/default.aspx?page=441
which compares the very variable effects on the liver !!

Who uses red yeast rice for cholesterol problems?
http://fr.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 430AAEOULt
http://www.passeportsante.net/fr/Maux/P ... rolemie_pm

Red rice yeast. The red yeast rice supplements which have been the subject of convincing clinical trials for their cholesterol-lowering effects are extracts standardized to contain a certain amount of monacolines (natural forms of statins). Cholestin® was marketed in North America until 2001 and XueZhiKang® is sold in China. Cholestin® is no longer sold in North America due to a trade war between its manufacturer and pharmaceutical companies which produce synthetic statins which led the Food and Drug Administration of the United States to prohibit the over-the-counter sale of red yeast rice supplements containing lovastatin. The monacoline content of red yeast rice supplements currently on the market is not standardized and can vary enormously: there is no guarantee that it contains sufficient lovastatin to exert the desired pharmacological effect. According to a synthesis of studies published in 2004 by Canadian researchers, standardized extracts of red yeast rice can lower total cholesterol from 13% to 26%, LDL from 21% to 33%, and that triglycerides from 13% to 24% 10.

“Red yeast rice is, in fact, a natural source of statin (mainly similar to Mevacor®). Its use is however not widespread, because the concentration of its active ingredient is frequently sub-therapeutic and the product is almost absent from tablets. In addition, a therapeutic dose of red yeast rice will produce the same side effect profile as synthetic drugs. "
“To date, policosanol has been the most attractive supplement for cardiovascular disorders. It is effective in lowering cholesterol and its dosage is easy to follow. Its vasodilator effect seems to improve exercise tolerance. On the other hand, because of its effect on platelets, it can theoretically interact with the coumadin. "
“Soluble fiber (flax, psyllium, oats, fenugreek, etc.) has the effect of lowering cholesterol, triglycerides and hyperglycemia, three factors associated with heart disease. The first choice is to increase the soluble fiber in the diet. "
You can find the full article at http://www.passeportsante.net/Docu [...] 004_nd.htm
On another Canadian site (Health-Canada), the report of adverse effects of red yeast rice In summary, LRR is a statin, certainly natural, but which is identical to lovastatin and which has similar side effects. Complete bulletin: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/med [...] 3_e.html # 4
Lovastatin (MEVACOR), which was released in 1988, apparently does not appear on the market in France, but at least in Canada. Who has experienced side effects with Red Yeast Rice? And with Policosanol?
sources:
http://www.passeportsante.net/fr/Maux/P ... rolemie_pm

Another fundamental point worse than fat, the hidden sugar on the general balance dear to Obamot
http://www.passeportsante.net/fr/Maux/P ... rolemie_pm

There has been a lot of talk about cholesterol, saturated fat, trans fat. The industry reflex has been to remove fat everywhere: fat-free yogurts, cholesterol-free products, etc. But to improve the taste, we added sugar. Today, many experts believe that the obesity epidemic is due to this industry reaction. Nowadays, we eat more, but mostly we eat more sugar. The consequences of this excess sugar have certainly been overlooked.

Le sugar influences blood lipids, especially by insulin metabolism. When you eat a sweet dessert, say a piece of cake or a sweet yogurt, your insulin goes up to lower your blood sugar. When insulin is high in the blood, it causes a multitude of reactions. For example, a few hours after eating this dessert, and your liver starts producing more triglycerides. It also produces a little more LDL cholesterol, but the effect of sugar on this type of blood lipid is lighter. Overall, by raising the insulin level, sugar causes fat storage. Fats that lodge in the viscera increase the waist and secrete a host of pro-inflammatory and oxidative substances. Inflammation is definitely linked to cardiovascular disease and possibly cancer too.