Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India

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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 05/06/18, 09:14

A very interesting analysis on the place of the H in India, some passages quoted below:
https://journals.openedition.org/transcontinentales/724

(...) The development of Indian medical pluralism has, since the 1960 years, been the subject of a number of works in the social sciences that have already largely explored this theme, but seeking to know why the Indians continued to use traditional therapies. Several responses have been suggested, including: the inaccessibility of biomedicine for the vast majority of the population (especially the rural population); the belief system of the rural population; more recently, the dissatisfaction generated by the invasive methods of allopathic medicine and the over-medicalization it encourages. In fact, in India, as everywhere else in the world, it is because of biomedicine's inability to meet all the demands that the medical field induces a demand for alternative care, demand strengthened by the popularity of "soft" and "natural" therapies and by the many signs of satisfaction that emanate from the population.

(...) This is the main reason why the FRCC's major periodicals (Quarterly Bulletin and CCRH News) offer mainly results proving by the tools of experimental research the effectiveness of non-biomedical remedies in the treatment of various pathologies.

(...) Similarly, Bengali homeopaths do not think to practice a complementary therapy, but insist on the contrary on the peculiarities of homeopathy that they envisage as a medicine with a very wide healing potential, devoid of side effects, effective and preventive, in short, a global medicine that is intended for the patient seeking treatment different from that proposed by allopathic medicine and other Indian medicines. Indian homeopaths see homeopathy as a medicine in its own right, different from other medical systems in India, as noted by historians David Arnold and Sumit Sarkar

(...) Secondly, if Indian practitioners remain attached to the founding texts of the doctrine, Frank and Ecks have repeatedly noted deviations from the canons of practice. they have thus been able to observe a certain number of elements coming from the Indian conceptions of what it means to be and stay in good health and intervening at the level of consultation, diagnosis, as well as treatment. In India, health is often associated with specific nutritional practices and climate variations.. These dimensions are often taken into account in the direction of medical treatment, regardless of the medicine used. Nutrition is indeed a central element in the management of health intervening as well in the medical procedures as in the popular conceptions. it is therefore natural that it occupies an important place in homeopathic consultation and treatment, not only because much is made of the attractions and repulsions of patients in the development of the diagnosis, but also because the practitioner often associates with the treatment of bans or incentives to consume certain foods (especially fresh fruits and vegetables). While it is true that in Europe, homeopaths prohibit certain foods while taking homeopathic treatment (such as coffee, chlorophyll or chamomile), the place given to food consumed by the patient is much more important in India, and extends to some spices, crustaceans and fats
Seasonal changes, which occupy an important place in other Indian medicines because they are supposed to act on the body, also encourage homeopaths to change their practices. Thus, depending on the season, diagnoses and prescriptions will not be the same for the same set of symptoms. More than a simple "tropical homeopathy", it is a homeopathy adjusted to the Indian medical culture that takes precedence over standardized classical homeopathy. Thus, while it may be said that homeopathy has been adopted as a whole, if no element seems to have been removed from it, it has, however, been augmented by Indian practices and beliefs, so that adjusts more adequately to the social and cultural environment of health in India.

(...) The intervention of the assistants serves to reduce the duration of the consultation (from one hour to half an hour), it allows to receive a larger number of patients and to collect more quickly a maximum of elements which allow the practitioner to establish the diagnosis
But the development of homeopathy in India is a much more complex phenomenon than we have been able to show here. it undeniably testifies to the dynamism of a health system in which biomedicine does not enjoy the monopoly of official recognition, and where other scholarly medicines have found their place. If India deserves its title of " the world capital of homeopathy This is not just because of the number of practitioners, patients and training and care institutions identified. It's also largely because the rise of homeopathy in india has been accompanied by a considerable expansion of homeopathic research itself thanks to strong support from the Indian state, a support that has created a unique developmental situation for this medicine.
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by izentrop » 05/06/18, 22:22

Janic wrote:it is because of the inability of biomedicine to meet all the demands that the medical field induces a demand for alternative care
lack of blackbirds ...
Do not look for good reasons, there are none.
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 06/06/18, 07:15

janic cited:
it is because of the inability of biomedicine to meet all the demands that the medical field induces a demand for alternative care
lack of blackbirds ...
This is partly correct. Allopathy has invaded the whole world with promises to eradicate the disease in the world and India believed in it like many others like China, which also comes back because the A is sometimes revealed to be "effective". but for a short time and these are the ancient medicines, having proved their worth over millennia, who come back in strength. What is obviously a failure for the A and in a way alternative medicine can even thank BP for showing so many failures and dangerousness, which turned against them.
demand strengthened by the popularity of "soft" and "natural" therapies and by the many signs of satisfaction that emanate from the population.
(...) This is the main reason why the FRCC's major periodicals (Quarterly Bulletin and CCRH News) offer mainly results proving by the tools of experimental research the effectiveness of non-biomedical remedies in the treatment of various pathologies.

and so thrushes are much better than blackbirds.
Do not look for good reasons, there are none.
This must be said to the Indian authorities! : Evil:

wherein biomedicine does not enjoy monopoly of official recognition, and where others learned medicine could find their place
yes, big pharma can not win everywhere as with Bill Gates and his vaccines, 10 times more expensive than local production, and was fired and lost by the Indian government.
http://initiativecitoyenne.be/article-v ... 53231.html
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Gébé » 06/06/18, 08:00

Janic wrote:
] Do not look for good reasons, there are none.
This must be said to the Indian authorities! : Evil: l

Health in India is 75 dollars per capita (against 5000 in France). Only one-third, 25 dollars, is spent by the state. So obviously, when we only want to put this sum there to treat the population, small balls of sugar that cost almost nothing, it's very interesting! Too bad if it's inefficient, for lack of thrush ....
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by perseus » 06/06/18, 08:58

Hello,

Janic wrote:
[...]
Thus, while it may be said that homeopathy has been adopted as a whole, if no element seems to have been removed from it, it has, however, been augmented by Indian practices and beliefs, so that adjusts more adequately to the social and cultural environment of health in India.
[...]


Regardless of the debate about effectiveness or not. What I remember from this kind of quote is: adaptation of the speech to the customers. Neither more nor less than a good old classic marketing.
When "Big Pharma" does this we do not fail to underline its cynicism.

@+
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 06/06/18, 10:17

Gebe bonjour

Health in India is 75 dollars per capita (against 5000 in France). Only one-third, 25 dollars, is spent by the state. So obviously, when we only want to put this sum there to treat the population, small balls of sugar that cost almost nothing, it's very interesting!

You are partly right about the expenses of illness, no health, the nuance is important. Recently, in France, there has been some news about the preventive role of hygiene, nutrition, endocrine disruptors, risky behavior such as alcohol, tobacco and other drugs, and the figures speak for themselves. themselves for tobacco, for example, with the sharp decline in consumption-related cancers that is declining in men and increasing in women, younger and younger. Neither the A nor the H are for nothing of course. Moreover, drugs, except generics, are extremely expensive, diagnostic devices too, that is to say, less oriented to health than in the direction of detection only (it is also useful)

https://leprixdelavie.medecinsdumonde.org/fr-FR/
and these are not H's but A's who throw these cries of alarms on the exorbitant cost of the drugs in question, which are no longer worth anything as soon as they go into generic after 20 years, but with big profits and dividends meanwhile. Eh yes ! If "health is priceless" on the other hand, disease is a lucrative business!

LEUKEMIA IS IN AVERAGE 20 000% GROSS MARGIN
Every year in France, cancer reports 2,4 billion
Glivec has revolutionized the treatment of rare cancers of the blood and bone marrow. This treatment costs between 2 270 and 3 400 euros per month in France according to the dosage, up to 40 000 euros treatment for one year - knowing that the duration of treatment ranges from a few months to several years. According to Andrew Hill, pharmacologist and researcher at the University of Liverpool, if you take into account the actual cost of production of Glivec, which is added the cost of other stages of manufacture and transport, with a profit margin of 50% , the drug could be sold for less than 200 euros a year. The margin rate that appears in the visual is the proportion between the annual price of 40 000 euros in France and what we can consider as the actual cost of this treatment to 200 euros (which already includes a margin ...)

It is effective ... in terms of profitability especially! We understand better why it costs 5000 in France.
Clearly, the Indian health system is still largely underdeveloped, underfunded by the public authorities, and access to care is the first problem. But it is also a very strong growth area of ​​17% per year, which today weighs 100 billion and is expected to reach 280 billion in 2020, according to the CII-IBEF.
The French health sector today weighs 278 billion dollars, almost three times that of India, which should however catch us within three to five years! We have in France the health system mature of a developed economy, a hyper-developed system whose quality is recognized worldwide, but which is costing us more and moreso much so that we no longer have the means to maintain it without profound reforms.

But also:
https://actuinde.com/2017/03/03/les-def ... e-en-inde/

Too bad if it's inefficient, for lack of thrush ....
For efficiency, it is the Indian doctors who can answer it, not you, nor me.

Perseus hello
Regardless of the debate about effectiveness or not. What I remember from this kind of quote is: adaptation of the speech to the customers. Neither more nor less than a good old classic marketing.
When "Big Pharma" does this we do not fail to underline its cynicism.

Everything is marketing, in this area as in others. The important thing is to know which marketing is the most useful and the most effective? Big pharma did not appear like that, by chance! It has become big only over the decades and the state of the diseases of the various nations and the more demands there are, the more offers there are as well as the opposite, cynicism only exists as a second possibility (Dr. Knock). The above example of a $ 40.000 treatment per year (and it's you and me paying for it) that could only be 200, 50% benefit included. Is it cynicism? Yes ! Because who could offer it in India, (or even in France except SS and mutual) while 200 is on the contrary possible for everyone. but who is interested?
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Gébé » 06/06/18, 13:52

Janic wrote:
Too bad if it's inefficient, for lack of thrush ....
For efficiency, it is the Indian doctors who can answer it, not you, nor me.

I rely instead on double-blind placebo / homeopathy studies .... but I know that you prefer the impressions, the examples, the anecdotes and personal experiences or the statements of those who live on them.
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 06/06/18, 15:58

For efficiency, it is the Indian doctors who can answer it, not you, nor me.

I rely instead on double-blind placebo / homeopathy studies .... but I know that you prefer the impressions, the examples, the anecdotes and personal experiences or the statements of those who live on them.

Everyone relies on what he believes first and what he experiences next.
So I repeat again, the comparative example of a surgeon and a butcher. Each one of them has common points like cutting off the hack according to the rules accepted and learned in their respective branches. So you find yourself with two specialties that can not be confused and mix (otherwise avoids having to operate by a butcher : Cheesy: )
So surgery, as a specialty, has its own criteria of measurement, of comparison between how to work the bidoche, but which are not the same as those of the butchers (yet each one in his field to coherent rules)
So the studies of some can not serve as measurement criteria vis-à-vis another specialty.
We are not here in impressions, anecdotes, but in the concrete that can not be questioned by anyone (well, I hope for the future amateurs of the scalpel) : Cry:
So again, allopathy has no the skills necessary to judge another specialty and all its claims to compare this other specialty, their own, with its methods, its means of comparison and measurement, as with placebo, are false by their nature.
In the same way that homeopathy does not have the criteria of comparison of with allopathy. It would be like comparing Newtonian physics with the quantum physics of which homeopathy is closer to it.
.... but I know that you prefer the impressions, the examples, the anecdotes and personal experiences or the statements of those who live on them.
For this last point, the words of those who live. It's giving the baton to be beaten. As Bourvil said " to say it is good but the iron is better ! Allopaths say and do in their field with mixed results, and they live because they do not work for free and homeopaths, diplomas from the same faculties of medicine, say and do and live differently (otherwise they do A). with the expected success too. Elementary my dear Gbe!
Afterwards, for your personal account, it gives you a more diversified choice than with an institutional monopoly and only the experience that you will give you more confidence in one or the other, although you have to experiment 'other. (I remind you that in science and particularly with regard to any treatment, it is only feedback that validates these) and the H returns are sufficiently numerous in terms of results, which can not depend on a placebo, to credit this specialty.

For the placebo:
It has often been argued that placebo interventions are substantially effective in many clinical conditions. However, most reports on the effects of placebos come from unreliable studies, without randomized assignment of patients for placebo or no treatment
Authors' conclusions:
Overall, we did not identify any significant clinical effects associated with placebo interventions. However, in some contexts, placebo interventions may have an impact on patient-reported outcomes, particularly pain and nausea, but it is difficult to distinguish patient-reported effects from a possible reporting bias. The effects on pain varied (negligible to clinically important), including those with low risk of bias. The variability of placebo effects could be explained in part by variations observed in terms of trial implementation and patient information.


http://www.cochrane.org/fr/CD003974/int ... -cliniques
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by pedrodelavega » 10/06/18, 21:08

Janic wrote:So I repeat again, the comparative example of a surgeon and a butcher.
Comparing a butcher and a surgeon makes no sense, their job does not have the same goal ...
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 11/06/18, 07:57

janic wrote: So I repeat again, the comparative example of a surgeon and a butcher.

Comparing a butcher and a surgeon makes no sense, their job does not have the same goal ...

In case you did not understand it, the comparison begins and ends with the cutting of the bunch, so common point as the A and the H have a common point which is to take care of the patients, but not in the same goal either.
The former seek to remove symptoms with toxic products, and it works, the latter seek to restore disrupted organic functions with non-toxic products and it works too.
For the purpose? In fact the butcher cuts the barbaque to feed an individual who will fall ill, like cancer or heart disease, and who will have to resort to surgery, which will allow him to get sick again to be operated again, etc. .. : Cry:
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