Health and prevention. Pollution, causes and effects of environmental hazardsIs Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby Julienmos » 30/04/20, 19:23

Did67 wrote:
Julienmos wrote:
because staying at home with just doliprane, hoping it goes well, is not particularly reassuring ...


If it's not serious (98% of cases), it will pass ... Some doctors have a priori, taken the risk of prescribing hydroxychloroquine (a priori, according to what some have said themselves on the media - proof that the sanctions ....). I doubt that mine would have done it.

And if it's serious, you will be hospitalized!


but precisely if this chloroquine prescribed AT THE BEGINNING makes it possible to avoid a possible aggravation (it is only a hypothesis, effectiveness not yet proven despite what Raoult says) ... and since it seems no Raoult patient has known of heart problems due to this hydrochloroquine (work in close collaboration with a cardiologist) ...

I believe that the real problem (the reluctance to authorize the Raoult protocol for all patients in France from the first symptoms) is rather the "heaviness" of the protocol (test, electrocardiograms, monitoring ...) and the fact of having to to be hospitalized for this (which is the case with Raoult in Marseille I think? from the start of the illness?)

My family member was at the hospital after a week of doliprane at home. And so, she had this treatment (chloro azitro) and was able to return after her hospitalization.
Her husband, sick at the same time as she, was not at the hospital, it happened with only the doliprane;

Except that 15 days later, they each had a blood test, good results for her, bad for her husband, who then had to have a CT scan which revealed pulmonary damage ...

So with doliprane alone, even if you think you are cured, it is not necessarily the case!
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby Did67 » 30/04/20, 19:46

Again: I don't know, for hydroxychloroquine. And everyone is free to believe what seems good to them. And, here, to express it freely.

My point of view here is that the sentence you are quoting is not being honest - that's just it. Nothing more. No, a doctor cannot prescribe légalement hydroxychloroquine apart from the indications mentioned. Yes, in hospitals, we can prescribe hydroxychloroquine legally since I do not know how many in March. That’s all I’m saying.

I added that any city doctor can conscientiously prescribe - as every citizen can cheat. Drive at 220 on the highway. Do not declare tips to the taxman. Or what do I know. He risks little.

The two cases do not make a sample.

I believe that for rigorous people, the question is not scientifically settled (but I have been little interested in the subject for the past few days; it has fed me, this masturbation of hydroxychloroquine and all these ignorant people erected as "specialists" who judge people with skills; distortion of our time, everyone is the nicest, the smartest; everyone knows better than the coach which is the best national football team - except when the coach's team wins the World Cup, there the imbeciles crash; so yes, it gives me; no, I do not know, no I do not take a position on the bottom that is to say is it effective or not ? If tomorrow I am diagnosed, I don't know what I would ask if I was listened to).

Beyond what is scientifically proven, we are in belief. Scientists are, despite what they show or the image they cultivate, great believers. By definition, a hypothesis that is tested is a belief - in the strict sense of the term. "I believe that under such conditions, such a thing works like that". Therefore, I develop a protocol, which, if it is well constructed, will confirm that it has been proven (or on the contrary invalidated).

For me, Raoult is a believer (in the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine). Its opponents are believers (in its ineffectiveness).

It gets a little complicated, because there are "clues", pre-publications, etc.

So these are believers whose eyes are starting to open ...

The chapels don't interest me.

So I do not know. I am agnostic.

But Merry, as you quoted, I am formal, says a lie (at least by omission!). From two ends of the sentence "for the indications provided" and "legally" ... With these details, he is right. But that changes everything! I'm not interested in this gentleman, but if the rest is just as serious, my god, we are the science of it !!!!
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby Christophe » 30/04/20, 20:53

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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby perseus » 01/05/20, 12:01

Hello,

Did67 wrote:Again: I don't know, for hydroxychloroquine. And everyone is free to believe what seems good to them. And, here, to express it freely.

My point of view here is that the sentence you are quoting is not being honest - that's just it. Nothing more. No, a doctor cannot prescribe légalement hydroxychloroquine apart from the indications mentioned. Yes, in hospitals, we can prescribe hydroxychloroquine legally since I do not know how many in March. That’s all I’m saying.

I added that any city doctor can conscientiously prescribe - as every citizen can cheat. Drive at 220 on the highway. Do not declare tips to the taxman. Or what do I know. He risks little.

The two cases do not make a sample.

I believe that for rigorous people, the question is not scientifically settled (but I have been little interested in the subject for the past few days; it has fed me, this masturbation of hydroxychloroquine and all these ignorant people erected as "specialists" who judge people with skills; distortion of our time, everyone is the nicest, the smartest; everyone knows better than the coach which is the best national football team - except when the coach's team wins the World Cup, there the imbeciles crash; so yes, it gives me; no, I do not know, no I do not take a position on the bottom that is to say is it effective or not ? If tomorrow I am diagnosed, I don't know what I would ask if I was listened to).

Beyond what is scientifically proven, we are in belief. Scientists are, despite what they show or the image they cultivate, great believers. By definition, a hypothesis that is tested is a belief - in the strict sense of the term. "I believe that under such conditions, such a thing works like that". Therefore, I develop a protocol, which, if it is well constructed, will confirm that it has been proven (or on the contrary invalidated).

For me, Raoult is a believer (in the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine). Its opponents are believers (in its ineffectiveness).

It gets a little complicated, because there are "clues", pre-publications, etc.

So these are believers whose eyes are starting to open ...

The chapels don't interest me.

So I do not know. I am agnostic.

But Merry, as you quoted, I am formal, says a lie (at least by omission!). From two ends of the sentence "for the indications provided" and "legally" ... With these details, he is right. But that changes everything! I'm not interested in this gentleman, but if the rest is just as serious, my god, we are the science of it !!!!


Well, that pretty much sums up my thinking. So thank you.
Finally, while waiting for solid scientific feedback, all the threads on this subject are going around in circles as surely as the fashionable news channels, see more.

Incidentally, I think that whatever it turns out, the damage is done.
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby Julienmos » 02/05/20, 13:43

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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby GuyGadebois » 02/05/20, 14:14

Julienmos wrote:https://www.ladepeche.fr/2020/05/01/coronavirus-une-nouvelle-etude-identifie-plusieurs-molecules-prometteuses-et-ecarte-lhydroxychloroquine,8870144.php

Magnificent, sponsored by Roche *, Pfizer ** (with eFFECTOR Therapeutics **) and Sanofi (Pasteur, therefore), a sign of independence, impartiality with NO desire for profit!

* How are you working with external partners on programs focused on COVID-19?
We initiated an internal research program to develop drugs against SARS-CoV-2. We also initiated an external collaboration with Nevan Krogan and his team at the University of California San Francisco (UCSF)
https://www.roche.com/strongertogether/ ... search.htm

** Earlier this year eFFECTOR announced a license and collaboration agreement with Pfizer for its eIF4E program (molecule: zotatifin tested for covid-19 ndr) with an upfront fee of $ 15M and a total value up to $ 507M, including an option to co-promote in the US.
https://www.ktvn.com/story/41669776/eff ... conference
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby GuyGadebois » 02/05/20, 14:51

Read on the Institut Pasteur website about the new tests:
In the category of modulators Sigma-1 and Sigma-2, the antipsychotic haloperidol, used to treat schizophrenia, has shown antiviral activity against SARS-CoV-2

https://www.pasteur.fr/fr/espace-presse ... tiellement

Read on the public drug database site:
HALDOL can cause heart problems, difficulty controlling body or limb movements, and a serious side effect called "neuroleptic malignant syndrome". It can also cause severe allergic reactions and blood clots.

http://base-donnees-publique.medicament ... &typedoc=N
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"By definition the cause is the product of the effect". (Tryphion)
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby gegyx » 02/05/20, 14:59

HALDOL can cause heart problems, difficulty controlling body or limb movements, and a serious side effect called 'neuroleptic malignant syndrome'
I just saw it cause, Castaner must use it daily. :|
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby pedrodelavega » 02/05/20, 19:37

GuyGadebois wrote:
Julienmos wrote:https://www.ladepeche.fr/2020/05/01/coronavirus-une-nouvelle-etude-identifie-plusieurs-molecules-prometteuses-et-ecarte-lhydroxychloroquine,8870144.php

Magnificent, sponsored by Roche *, Pfizer ** (with eFFECTOR Therapeutics **) and Sanofi (Pasteur, therefore), a sign of independence, impartiality with NO desire for profit!

* How are you working with external partners on programs focused on COVID-19?
We initiated an internal research program to develop drugs against SARS-CoV-2. We also initiated an external collaboration with Nevan Krogan and his team at the University of California San Francisco (UCSF)
https://www.roche.com/strongertogether/ ... search.htm

** Earlier this year eFFECTOR announced a license and collaboration agreement with Pfizer for its eIF4E program (molecule: zotatifin tested for covid-19 ndr) with an upfront fee of $ 15M and a total value up to $ 507M, including an option to co-promote in the US.
https://www.ktvn.com/story/41669776/eff ... conference


The sources that you cite have no connection with this study in question done in university, it seems to me:
https://www.ladepeche.fr/2020/05/01/cor ... 870144.php
https://www.pasteur.fr/fr/espace-presse ... tiellement
"An international initiative bringing together researchers fromCalifornian University San Francisco (UCSF), Gladstone Institutes, Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai andPasteur Institute reveals promising compounds for clinical trials to combat COVID-19. The study, led by Dr. Nevan Krogan (director of the UCSF Quantitative Biosciences Institute), shows that some drugs could fight COVID-19 while another promotes infectivity. "

Furthermore, if we go this way, the Marseille IHU has links of interest with Sanofi which produces Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine).

I think we must remain cautious in the face of confidence in this sulphurous character:
https://www.lemonde.fr/cop21/article/20 ... 27432.html
and let science do its work between scientists .... As far as possible from the media.
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Re: Is Germany (already) using Plaquenil (Chloroquine) against Covid-19?

Unread Messageby GuyGadebois » 02/05/20, 19:40

pedrodelavega wrote:Furthermore, if we go this way, the Marseille IHU has links of interest with Sanofi which produces Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine).

This molecule has fallen into the public domain ... : roll:
Then, when you don't want to see the obvious links between these labs and the "new study", you might as well go blind ...
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“It is better to mobilize your intelligence on bullshit than to mobilize your bullshit on intelligent things. (J.Rouxel)
"By definition the cause is the product of the effect". (Tryphion)
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