France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.

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Re: France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.




by Moindreffor » 17/03/19, 14:06

pedrodelavega wrote:
Janic wrote:read everything and read carefully, including this passage, widely cited and highlighted: "" Eradication campaigns based entirely or mainly on mass vaccination were successful in a few countries but in most cases failed."

"Mass vaccination campaigns have failed", what does that mean?
If you answered "We vaccinated everyone and the disease has spread anyway", you are entitled to one point for participation. But I must remove two points from you for falling into the argumentation trap.

The correct answer was "We failed to vaccinate everyone and the unvaccinated again spread the disease".
Read the entire report to understand its meaning (not just 3 sentences), its conclusion is final:
-Mass vaccination was essential for the eradication of smallpox.
-Vaccination has eradicated smallpox.

Informative analogy: A building is on fire. The jets of water coming out of the ceiling put out most of the fire. The firefighters intervene and extinguish the last scattered flames. The OIC arrives and cries out to the scandal "The water jets that come out of the ceiling have failed, they must be eliminated!" And the firefighters too! "

once again, Janic not being a scientist he does not understand scientific language, he read it like a literary, without understanding its depth, it is not his fault, it is up to us scientists to make an effort of didactic for people who do not have this scientific spirit can understand the "real" meaning of the sentences written in the reports
unfortunately this didactic work is not always done which creates this kind of confusion and leads to false debates, but afterwards one can not be limited and understand his error and admit his wrongs
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Re: France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.




by Janic » 17/03/19, 15:53

if you find a fake news that I quoted I apologize,
it's worse than fake news, you refuse to take into consideration anything that does not come out of the media under orders. I have already said and repeated that the only sources that "we" take into consideration are only the official ones, internationally and nationally for comparison from their origin.
because I already told you, what I'm talking about is from my experience,
your experience with vaccines or drugs?
when i talk about science it's because i'm a scientist
When you talk about your specialty: why not? for the rest there is no difference with the average citizen.
Because a true scientist would know the difference between truncated statistics and complete statistics: did you do it ?
He would not naively believe that everything that comes out of the politically accepted is synonymous with truth and he would verify it: did you do it ?
He would not admit these privileges which benefit vaccines to the detriment of the physical and mental integrity of children without defenses vis-à-vis adults pretending to be in their right (like Mengele): did you do it?
He would not admit that this myth was built in opposition to the rules that are imposed on drugs, currently, either a single case, doubtful on top of that. A true scientist would seek the truth, not submission to dogmas: did you do it?
on the other hand, you were indeed caught lying
Lying and being wrong are two different things, one true scientist should be aware of it, if he is a true scientist!
when you say that the other 2 dead were vaccinated and that later we prove the opposite, you lied well using a mathematical logic of 3-1 = 2 except that as I noted the text did not say it and c it was you who told me that I couldn't read
it's funny but on that we don't find you
I answer below!
So as we do not find you on the evidence to bring on the vaccine efficacy which has never been proven. A claim of effectiveness, is not scientifically proof of efficacy and safety even less, that is scientific.
you are once again in default, and you always want to get away with your rhetoric, not frankly, you pass for a funny and in the eyes all
, Do not take yourself for a reference, you and your friends are only 3, 4 at most, which simply emphasizes that the subscribers of the site are either indifferent, or attend the show without taking part.
so do not insist, because there you will find it difficult to prove the opposite, it is marked just above
the evidence is not your strong point since since, apart from your alter ego, you have provided none on the merits of the subject.

So:
once again, Janic not being a scientist
And it's a pseudo scientist who says that!
this is a fake news
he doesn't understand scientific language,
fake news
he reads it like a literary, without understanding its depth, it's not his fault,
condescension in lack of linguistics
it's at we scientists to make an effort of didactics for people who do not have this scientific spirit can understand the "real" meaning of the sentences written in the reports
re fakenews and condescension? Who is the we in question? You, you and you?
unfortunately this work of didactic it is not always done which creates this kind of confusion and leads to false debates, but afterwards one can not be limited and understand his error and admit his wrongs
Didactic that you miss so! so concerning you first!

So precision, I have: written
when one says that out of 3 people, one died because not vaccinated (dixit Madam the minister), that means that… ..? That…. ? than the other 2 victims were. Well done ! you have won !
re-so,
I then correctedMore here I wrote : WHEN… Since the Minister should have announced that all 3 were unvaccinated. The argument put forward is that 2 could not be and why not? this is one of the cases that cannot be vaccinated in theory. But where is indicated that the 3 ° would not have been vaccinable either and I found nothing indicating one version rather than another since the law provides for these exemptions. However, unvaccinated people are vaccinated for health reasons.

So it was not ONE unvaccinated victim but THREE! This is a voluntary oversight or ... a lie. Most of the newspapers that insist on the only incriminated case and not on the three. What's this ? fake news or misrepresentation ?.
By cons when I ask 5 issues on vaccine precautionary exemptions, it's radio silence and it's been a long time since anyone has ventured to justify it. If this is correct, it is because there is an eel under the rocks to say the least, similarly when I ask for proofs, we post truncated graphs and no correction taking into account all of the statistics, etc… no more you , the scientist, than the others.
While we, you or your alter ego, come to make me a trial of intention for having rushed into my proposals, compared to the many fakenews of officials and their aficionados, it does not weigh the same in the balance. : Evil:
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Re: France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.




by pedrodelavega » 17/03/19, 16:29

Janic wrote: you refuse to take into consideration everything that does not come from the media to order.
under whose orders?

Janic wrote: I then correctedMore here I wrote : WHEN… Since the Minister should have announced that all 3 were unvaccinated.
In what article did the minister say that?

Janic wrote: So it was not ONE unvaccinated victim but THREE! This is a voluntary oversight or ... a lie. Most of the newspapers that insist on the only incriminated case and not on the three. What's this ? fake news or misrepresentation ?.
It's wrong. Cross-check your info again:
http://sante.lefigaro.fr/article/rougeo ... en-france/
https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/socie ... 20836.html
https://www.lepoint.fr/societe/la-rouge ... 013_23.php
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Re: France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.




by Janic » 17/03/19, 19:51

In what article did the minister say that?
in an intervention at the national assembly! The previous minister was not outdone!
It's wrong. Cross-check your info again:
that I indicated previously. These newspapers are not medical works and they attract the barge by their titles. By the same AFP agency managed by the ARS therefore provaxx.
If, they had clearly displayed that these 3 deaths were unvaccinated, the effect would not have been the same and that does not stop with the written media, but also audio or TV, since the majority is provaxx. And any journalist knows that it is not only the headlines that make their mark, but also the way the articles are shot that will influence the readers. It suffices to compare two political or religious newspapers, for example, to see that a SAME event is not decrypted in the same way by each party and the vaccines are no exception!

'Nouvelle-Aquitaine Regional Health Agency. Resident in Poitiers, unvaccinated according to ARS, she had been hospitalized on February 1, placed in intensive care on the 2nd. She died on the 10th.
And as the vaccination is not 100% effective, this death could just as easily have come from contamination by a vaccinated subject, in this hospital, despite having been vaccinated.
Another detail of importance the health services consider that a person vaccinated by a single dose is considered as not vaccinated which poses a problem. since all vaccinated before the imposition of the 2nd dose were therefore unvaccinated, which was not the opinion of the health services of the time and who used it to say that this disease was in regression THANKS to this vaccination, considered today as a non-vaccination. Ignorance or fake news at the time? Same kind of truncated statistical curves?

NB: and while you are at it: answer the 5 questions previously asked!
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Re: France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.




by pedrodelavega » 17/03/19, 20:55

Janic wrote: If, these had clearly shown that these 3 deaths were unvaccinated, the effect would not have been the same
It was done and anyway I do not see what changes: It was you who said that 2 out of 3 were not vaccinated and it is false.
With each new death, they will not recall the detailed history of all the others in endless articles just to be sure that the conspiracists interpret the information correctly.

Janic wrote: Another detail of importance the health services consider that a person vaccinated with a single dose is considered as unvaccinated which poses a problem since all those vaccinated before the imposition of the 2nd dose were therefore unvaccinated, which does not was not the opinion of the health services of the time and who used it to say that this disease was regressing THANKS to this vaccination, considered today as a non vaccination. Ignorance or fake news at the time? Same kind of truncated statistical curves?
Simple:
Why is one dose of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine not enough?
Only two doses of vaccines will effectively and completely protect your child from these highly contagious diseases. If your child receives only one dose of vaccine, he may not be protected; he is still likely to contract one of these diseases and pass it on to others. Anyone born since 1980 should have received two doses of vaccine. Adolescents and young adults should therefore
check that they have received these two injections.
It is estimated that 5-10% of people vaccinated against measles do not respond to the first dose. Studies have shown that at least 90% of those who have not responded to the first dose will respond to the second. Slightly higher percentages of people fail to respond to the first dose of mumps vaccine. You can never vaccinate 100% of the population (because of the rare contraindications, but also because of people outside the healthcare system). To avoid the risk of epidemic outbreaks and to stop the endemic transmission of the measles virus, 95% vaccination coverage is necessary for both doses [11].
This two-dose vaccine strategy has led to the elimination of measles in some countries such as Finland, and virtual elimination throughout the Americas region of WHO (World Health Organization). This is why it is recommended to vaccinate with two doses of vaccine children and, since 2013, from 12 months, regardless of the type of care and catching up all adolescents or young adults born since
1980.
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Re: France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.




by Moindreffor » 17/03/19, 21:12

Janic wrote:
on the other hand, you were indeed caught lying
Lying and being wrong are two different things, one true scientist should be aware of it, if he is a true scientist!

I agree but do you admit that you were wrong, or that you were too quick in your statements, NO

this is what I blame you for, all your rhetoric on the "true" or the "false" scientific is blah blah, admit your mistakes you will have already taken a big step, and you will start a new approach

the "real" scientist always doubts, so when he says something it means that he has removed the doubt, that's why as soon as you said that the 2 others were vaccinated, I immediately doubted, because nothing in the text did not affirm it, I asked you to prove it, you were incapable of it and another speaker proved the opposite of what you said
So indeed you are not a "real" scientist because you have no doubts, you only record here and there information, even the official statistics do not mean anything if you do not analyze them in a rigorous or scientific way, either you could be wrong, or you could be deceived by manipulating the numbers,
on the other hand if you had a scientific spirit you would start by doubting and you would go further, by trying to cross your information with other sources and your retreat, or your scientific skills would allow you to see more clearly

not to take the raw figures (even official) or interpreted by a single source, we can make you believe anything, when you tell us it is a doctor in this what are you to question his assertions, well simply someone who does not stop at a single bell, someone who doubts, because I am a scientist and not a literary because in literature we do not need to prove, we can everything to write, even a historical novel remains a novel and some successful writers manage with history, and if we reproach them, the easy answer is: "it's a novel ..."
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Re: France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.




by Janic » 18/03/19, 09:24

I agree but do you admit that you were wrong, or that you were too quick in your statements, NO
what i did, just read me.
that's kind of what I'm blaming you for, all your rhetoric about "true" or "false" science is blah blah, admit your mistakes you will have already taken a big step, and you will start a new approach
It is not rhetoric, but facts verifiable in the scientific literature, uncensored, which shows that there is another face to the piece placed on the table and that it also exists.
the "real" scientist always doubts, so when he says something it means that he has removed the doubt, that's why as soon as you said that the other 2 were vaccinated,
let go of me with these details, get to the point who is:
Where is the evidence that BP provides on the supposed effectiveness of vaccines? Why vaccines escape safety rules? However, all provaxx literature dominates the media and ordinary citizens believe them without having or being able to analyze them and even less contest them. It is important not the fact of 2 or 3 isolated cases.
I immediately doubted, because nothing in the text affirmed it, I asked you to prove it, you were unable to do so and another intervener proved the opposite of what you said.
you doubt 2 or 3, but you do not doubt the thousands of victims to be sacrificed on the altar of the refusal to doubt.
But even under the ideal conditions, described by the minister, 90/95% would make between 3 and 7 million unvaccinated therefore as many supposed contaminants and, although it is many more unvaccinated that make it reality, it there are no deadly epidemics for benign pathologies, according to their own words and writings. However 3 out of 67.000.000 individuals is ridiculous (statistically) when he dies each year between 500 and 700 victims of tuberculosis and the minister not included in the mandatory, but for some rare cases, (and there only one case presented as if it were a fatal threat to populations) there it is all a mess, a sleight of hand to divert attention elsewhere than on reality [*]
So indeed you are not a "real" scientist because you have no doubts, you only record here and there information, even the official statistics do not mean anything if you do not analyze them in a rigorous or scientific way, either you could be wrong, or you could be deceived by manipulating the numbers,
And you call that a scientific approach? The official statistical figures in question can be consulted by everyone including you, not via “antivaxx” sites, what more could you ask for? So first essential step: did you do it ?
on the other hand if you had a scientific spirit you would start by doubting and you would go further, by trying to cross your information with other sources and your retreat, or your scientific skills would allow you to see more clearly
What do you think Being a true scientist, I started there and those who followed the same approach scientifically reach the same conclusion. Do you also believe, that the victims of the vaccines were not provaxx otherwise they, they, would not have been vaccinated, so these victims did not doubt, they, trusting blindly to the reassuring speeches of the lobbies which influenced the decision-makers and it is because they did not doubt that they became victims or died of them.
And if they, they doubt, the provaxx, the media rush on them like scavengers. So whether or not to doubt ? Or should doubt only go in one direction?
not to take raw figures (even official) or interpreted by a single source,
For the moment it is interpreted by a single source, the provaxx, by truncating the part which does not prove them right, considering this first part as unimportant, but highlighting, the only part which credits them. Is that honest? Scientist?
we can make you believe anything, when you tell us it's a doctor in this what are you to question his claims, well simply someone who does not stop at a single sound of bell, someone who doubts,
You can make anyone believe anything, scientist or not.
but if there is someone who does not doubt, then you are the proof! Now it is not a question of believing any doctor rather than another, but an International scientific literature which she is not antivaxx, but which is not mentioned in our self-censored provaxx media.
And the media, which doubt and ask real questions, find themselves taxed with antivaxx, because there is no doubt about pasteurian dogma as it was forbidden to doubt Catholic dogmas, which gave rise to the Inquisition or Mendele.
because I am a scientist and not a literary man because in literature you don't need to prove, you can write everything, even a historical novel remains a novel and some successful writers manage with History, and if we their reproach, the easy answer is: "it's a novel ..."
Very well: So follow a real scientific approach by consulting, comparing, analyzing the whole subject on a scientific level only, then prove and we will see what it ends up with, if you are honest with reality.

[*] Could you explain scientifically how, in the event of an "epidemic" of measles, being vaccinated against rubella or mumps plays a fundamental role against this disease?
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Re: France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.




by Moindreffor » 18/03/19, 18:12

a dead man makes the headlines and we would be hiding thousands of them
if that’s not conspiracy theory : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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Re: France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.




by Janic » 19/03/19, 09:48

@chistophe
You witness to me that it is not me who refuses to ease off, so I answer out of necessity.
janic wrote: Where is the evidence that BP provides on the supposed effectiveness of vaccines?

ht19 / 12/2017
Vaccines: Inserm confirms their efficacy and safety for children
What does science say about the 11 compulsory vaccines in France from 2018? Inserm takes stock of the area, confirming that the evidence supports a forte effectiveness of these and that little side effects are identified.
Already, nuance between the title and the beginning of the article. We can start again all that has been said and written on the subject, which will not change anything to vaccine beliefs and superstitions. So the title is affirmative, the beginning of the article much more nuanced.
On high efficacy, this is not to say that vaccines do not produce effects, called effectiveness, except that as reported by WHO, a vaccine given to a child is at risk (according to WHO) the manifestation of the disease towards other ages, either towards babies or towards adults, which is thus verified in the reported cases. and therefore it is the dog which runs after the tail. (WHO n has never been anti-vaccine on the contrary). Or towards other pathologies such as polio which, after vaccines, manifests itself by an explosion of paralysis in the form of acute puddle palsy (which has the same visible manifestations as real polio (see the WHO tables cited)) and who she has no vaccine. But statistically there is indeed a decline in polio.
The safety is therefore not very verifiable when the manifestations are not those of the disease without vaccines, but of other states, some of which are very serious too.
tps: //www.santemagazine.fr/actualites ...nts-223388

the teapot has already been seen and it is only a bunch of nonsense like all sects of the same kind.
https://theierecosmique.com/2015/09/28/ ... s-vaccines /

the world does not depart from his discourse on vaccine efficacy and presents curves like those already indicated by truncating all of the above and this therefore gives the impression of a real efficiency by a dizzying fall which can only impress the barge. Except that it is only an optical effect. For example whooping cough: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:C ... 5-1999.png to compare with their curves, all truncated. So they are right and wrong at the same time giving the impression of an efficiency belied by the complete graphics
https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/ar ... 55770.html

so I'm talking about official documents complete, me !
janic wrote: Why do vaccines escape safety rules?


http://inpes.santepubliquefrance.fr/100 ... accins.asp
https://www.who.int/features/qa/84/fr/
https://vaccination-info-service.fr/Gen ... are vaccinated

Fortunately some security measures ON THE MANUFACTURE OF VACCINES, ITS DISTRIBUTION, ITS PRESERVATION (in our countries only) exists, otherwise it would be worse, but I was talking about these:

Re-re-re-re-re So:
So for at least once and in order to reassure your aficionados, answer:

1) so you agree that no pharmacokinetic study be done !?
2) So that there is no mutagenesis studies ?
3) You also agree that there should be no carcinogenicity studies done?
4) Let there be no teratogenesis studies, no more ?
5) And so that studies against true placebo not be done?
6) And you find, of course, also normal that pharmacovigilance only identifies between 1 and 10% of side effects who alone enter the statistics?

We await precise and documented answers ... which public health does not provide.
On the other hand, scandals like the CDC's cheating on the MMR, not the slightest trace in their literature, nothing on the HPV that Japan and Sweden have mentioned. Nothing about the lawsuits won against BP by vaccine victims in America and elsewhere, for example. Just as, a long time ago, the British government had abolished the obligation to vaccinate its army against smallpox, considering the massacre on its soldiers caused by the ineffectiveness and the dangerousness of the vaccine in question, etc… not a word of public health and other provaccines on these burrs. Not a word on the rejection by the committee on vaccines (all provaccines) on the obligation that wanted to impose the minister and which she did not take into account so as not to displease her former employers and plan her way out. Not a word about the 14 European countries which impose nothing on its population and who prefer information to obligations, etc ... all of this has already been seen and reviewed throughout these discussions.

As for:
https://www.who.int/features/qa/84/fr/
it's marketing to please BP's private financial backers.
All the points raised have already been analyzed by the menu and show that it is not information, but advertising, marketing for its products as a car dealer will do for its sector and its brand. Defects are not reported TO THEIR REAL DIMENSION except by their competitors locally or abroad.
So we repeat, repeat, repeat continuously the same information already seen.

5th May 2018
Sweden: cervical cancer rates increase following mass vaccination of young girls

November 15, 2014
HPV vaccines: problems in India, Japan, France and Spain

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is currently under investigation by the Supreme Court of India for being involved in illegal testing HPV vaccines in children in this country. This legal action is the consequence of death, as well as serious side effects that have occurred in Indian girls in large trials of the HPV vaccine, which started in India in 2009 without informed parental consent.[*]

There are also other lawsuits regarding the dangers of HPV vaccines. In some countries such as Japan, HPV vaccine has been withdrawn from the recommended vaccine program due to adverse reactions serious that some women experienced after the vaccine was administered. It exists proofs that HPV vaccines have been associated with neurological damage, autoimmune diseases and in some cases to deaths. All of these issues need to be seriously studied before this vaccine is given to other adolescent girls during school programs. Health authorities claim that the problems that arise after vaccination are "coincidences", but they provide no scientific evidence to support their claims!
http://initiativecitoyenne.be/article-v ... 12319.html

[*] this recalls the case of Hispanic orphans like blacks, subject to the AZT which will wreak havoc on these children.
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