Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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Exnihiloest
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by Exnihiloest » 08/01/22, 21:27

Ahmed wrote:... The current "ecological transition", more exactly economic transition, aims at the same time to destroy part of this mass of capital (by normative obsolescence, mainly) and to stimulate a substitute industry (renewable energy, electric vehicles, production of "green" hydrogen, etc.): it is therefore a question of acting on the two levers simultaneously to try to push back the systemic infarction.

To destroy capital, there is no doubt that the ecological transition, if it continues as it started, will succeed, starting with the heritage of the French. But let's be reassured, we are moving towards equality, those who can no longer pay their rent or their energy will soon be joined by the others.

As for "free", it is not that it is really free, but that the States have more difficulty in tapping the income, diffuse, and it is all good for the citizen. The GAFA in particular escape the hyper-taxation of which ordinary citizens are victims, and as a result it will be less money wasted by the States, additional services for the citizen (search engines, Google street / earth , free site hosting, free online software ...) and more power for the citizen.
Indeed by the use of his money, in such or such sector that he chooses, the citizen influences the rest of the society. When it is the State which uses it in its place after having drained it by taxes and levies, which it does well beyond the necessary participation for essential services such as justice, education , the police, health, it is not only less money for the citizen, it is also less power for the citizen, and therefore less democracy.
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by Ahmed » 08/01/22, 22:01

Izy, you declare:
For once I have more or less understood what you are writing.

... and I am very happy! 8)
Admittedly, the oil shock was an indicator, more than a cause, of the fragility of the economic construction, but other less visible factors were already in play and an event which made less noise is a good example: in the early 70s, the bretton woods agreements which established the convertibility of us dollars into gold fell into disuse. This turning point marks the end of the supremacy of the real economy, in that it allows the development of a financial industry which, far from opposing or even vampirizing the so-called real economy, aims to replace to its progressive but flagrant incapacity to fulfill its role of autotelic increase of capital, and thus to provide it with a functional respite.
As for the famous "Rome report", it only prepared minds for new "disruptions" in the way of considering the economy. the opposites should not be seen as internal contradictions, but as different and inseparable aspects of the same reality: thus the workers who made the "front popu" triumph have also done a lot for the bourgeoisie, which conspired against them ... Today, it is the so-called "Green Khmer" who objectively work for the safeguard of capitalism: it is significant that, globally, all focus on the single aspect of "fight for the climate" and its potential panel of solutions. technology that only aims to save ... the economy!

I am doubtful as to the validity of the illustration that you propose. Of course, the energy aspect is not trivial, but it is above all through its role in the production of value; in this sense, it can act as an excess factor, which would tip the whole thing, but I do not see it as a direct cause. One of the arguments put forward, that the exporting countries would give up selling oil, seems doubtful to me, given that it is often their main resource and that they need money more than energy ... I am quite convinced that the descent of peak oil will be, technically speaking, rather gradual, which will probably be less the case with the capacity to realize the condition of existence of capitalism.
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by izentrop » 09/01/22, 09:51

Ahmed wrote: the only aspect of "fight for the climate" and its potential panel of technological solutions which only aims to save ... the economy!
It is misguided to satisfy a financial elite, with an enormous waste of raw material that will be difficult to recycle and extract when fossil fuels run out ... or even impossible because of the essential material becoming overpriced. .
Ahmed wrote:I am quite convinced that the descent of peak oil will be, technically speaking, rather gradual
When several hubert curves are decreasing at the same time, the steep slope is inevitable ... Interdependence has become so complex, even Africans depend on globalization for their food.
We are starting to have serious clues: the rise in gas prices has led to an even greater rise in the price of fertilizers, which are essential to obtain the yields necessary for ventilated food production throughout the globe, leading to the cessation of production factories no longer having enough operating margin ... The shortage of electronic components by shutting down other factories ...

Did you read Ugo Bardi's text https://www.nothing-is-3d.com/divers/ca ... a.org.html ?
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by humus » 09/01/22, 10:20

If it's free, then you are the product.

https://www.latribune.fr/opinions/edito ... 74672.html
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 09/01/22, 14:07

izentrop wrote: Interdependence has become so complex, even Africans depend on globalization for their food.

We have done everything for. For example, a French chicken "dumped" by the CAP is cheaper on the Dakar market than that produced in Senegal. : Evil:
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by Exnihiloest » 09/01/22, 14:14

humus wrote:If it's free, then you are the product.
...

More or less, but somewhere we don't care. Unlike taxes, using free is a choice. Those who don't want it may not use it, I'm sure they hadn't thought of it.
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by izentrop » 09/01/22, 14:22

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:
izentrop wrote: Interdependence has become so complex, even Africans depend on globalization for their food.
We have done everything for. For example, a French chicken "dumped" by the CAP is cheaper on the Dakar market than that produced in Senegal. : Evil:
Find out before telling "salads" https://www.lejdd.fr/Politique/non-le-p ... ar-3767582 : Twisted: : Twisted:
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 09/01/22, 14:26

izentrop wrote:
GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:
izentrop wrote: Interdependence has become so complex, even Africans depend on globalization for their food.
We have done everything for. For example, a French chicken "dumped" by the CAP is cheaper on the Dakar market than that produced in Senegal. : Evil:
Find out before telling "salads" https://www.lejdd.fr/Politique/non-le-p ... ar-3767582 : Twisted: : Twisted:

Ah that's good, they've finally protected themselves (From bird flu) with an embargo! This was the case until 2005. : Mrgreen:
But they are not immune to falling back into our clutches:
Will Senegal reopen its market to imports of chicken from abroad? The Minister of Commerce Alioune Sarr has just denied it in the press. But for three months the authorities in Dakar have multiplied contradictory statements. The Senegalese poultry industry is worried.

Great excitement among poultry producers in Senegal. They fear the lifting of a 13-year embargo on imports, against which they have built themselves.
In 2005, the Dakar authorities banned the importation of chicken for health reasons: the H5N1 influenza then raged in Asia, Europe and also already in Africa.
https://www.rfi.fr/fr/emission/20180622 ... ons-poulet
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by Ahmed » 09/01/22, 14:50

Isy, you write:
The [the fight for the climate] is misguided to satisfy a financial elite, with an enormous waste of raw material that will be difficult to recycle and extract when fossil fuels run out ... or even impossible because of the essential material becoming overpriced. .

The famous "elite" intervenes here only as agent of execution and is not the cause ... The wasting of natural resources and the plundering of other peoples is at the base of the exponential economic system. As its current possibilities are shrinking as a result of the massive expulsion from human labor (which is the condition for the formation of abstract value, which is a social relation), it must accordingly accelerate the destructive processes. to try to compensate for this loss by increasing production. A situation without lasting hope, since it is faced with an exponential ...
Thank you for the link...
If we integrate pic oil, we better understand the "hacking" aspect which is moving towards more "satisfactory" transitional solutions in terms of economy than reality, while waiting for this energy. clean, endless and not too expensive which alone would be able to push back a little further the functional contradictions of the economy (considered as independent and constituting its own objective). Will this big gap be possible? No one knows, but if so, it would be bad news for all living things. Of course, a justifying ideology would come at the right time to "demonstrate" the contrary ...
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 09/01/22, 15:18

Exnihiloest wrote: I'm sure they hadn't thought of it.

Of course, here is only you who thinks (that he thinks). : Twisted:
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