Degrowth by Timothée Parrique

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by ABC2019 » 14/07/21, 11:38

Ahmed wrote:One can appreciate the literature produced by Céline without subscribing to his anti-Semitic delusions ...

for once, it is a question of knowing if one adheres to his ideas or not, not of his literary qualities. Apparently even he does not really adhere to it ...
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by Ahmed » 14/07/21, 15:24

It was a metaphorical response that required a certain amount of imagination to understand. I had forgotten that the binary mode prevailed today ... : Oops:

To be perfectly coherent within a system, it is necessarily necessary to adhere entirely to it, which implies limiting oneself to its apology; as soon as we show ourselves a bit critical, we are already no longer really "in the nails" and the contradictions appear ...
However, there is no need to be overly sorry about it since contradictions also exist within the system: A.Smith, one of its best theoreticians, confronted it through his two books. The first dealt with "moral feelings", the other, more famous, celebrated (among others) the "invisible hand" of the market and, reflecting on the compatibility between these two themes, it only succeeded in the boring (but interesting !) conclusion that the moral criteria applied only to the private setting, while the reverse prevailed in the public sphere ...
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by Exnihiloest » 14/07/21, 16:37

dede2002 wrote:
Exnihiloest wrote:... And if hardly anyone sets an example by sabotaging their own standard of living, it is obviously because everyone prefers to keep their advantages, because the advantages of growth, there are plenty ...

You are perfectly right! The "standard of living" benefits have the same effect as a drug. We can no longer do without it, and we hide the negative externalities ... Such as the destruction of the conditions necessary for the life of animals, of which we are a part.


It is to reason backwards. Why has man improved his standard of living?

Quite simply because he was not satisfied with his condition: too long, too hard work, children who died at an early age, daily search for food, labor pains, cold and damp in the homes, various illnesses including some people don't even hear about it today (hunchbacks, harelips ...), exploration of the world prohibited except for a privileged few, entertainment / culture out of reach ...

The standard of living benefits are not a drug, but the result of people's aspiration. I find it insulting to all the generations that have preceded us to claim that their struggles, their toil, their inventiveness, will only result in a drug, and that people less well off than the West should be happy with their lot. !

This way of the well-to-do today of looking only at their very minor environmental concerns compared to the past human condition is pitifully navel-gazing allied to a total lack of culture in history.
Ecology is only one science among others, and even if it represented all sciences, which is not the case, it would be completely insufficient as a principle of foundation of a society. There is not only ecology in life, except for those who see an ideal in the life of the earthworm perfectly immersed in its environment.
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by Janic » 14/07/21, 17:07

exnull
completely stupid speech once again like this:
Quite simply because he was not satisfied with his condition: too long, too hard work, children who died at an early age, daily search for food, labor pains, cold and damp in the homes, various illnesses including some people don't even hear about it today (hunchbacks, harelips ...), exploration of the world prohibited except for a privileged few, entertainment / culture out of reach ...
There is in nature a law of equilibrium that what we gain on one side is to lose something else elsewhere. The key is to know if the game is worth the candle.
This increase in the standard of living, so attractive to some, has resulted in significant losses in society such as family ties and cohesion, especially with regard to young children.
A few years ago a group of children had been taken to a craftsman, I don't remember what, this craftsman expected these kids to question him about his job, but the only questions that were put to him were:
How much does your job earn? I do not know ! and how many hours do you work per week? I don't know, it's my job that decides! Do you have all your free weekends? etc ...
such a waste! : Cry:
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by Ahmed » 14/07/21, 17:52

There are not only negative externalities (which you are talking about quite rightly, Dede, and we must also consider the negative internalities: it is the latter that make us overestimate objective progress and ignore subjective regress. Technology supposes a psychic modification compatible with its existence (man-machine, pure objectification of accounting reason), so that it becomes acceptable; a modification which is imperfect, but which is complemented by the chemical panoply of the various variations of soma ...
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 16/07/21, 13:27

Here, "the decrease":
ViveLeFric! .JPG
ViveLeFric! .JPG (180.02 KiB) Viewed 1589 times

(LCE 14/07/2021)
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by Exnihiloest » 16/07/21, 18:33

"- Capitalism is rotting comrade. It rots, it rots ...
- Perhaps the other replied, but what does that smell good!
".
: Lol:
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by dede2002 » 18/07/21, 07:27

Exnihiloest wrote:...
It is to reason backwards. Why has man improved his standard of living?

Quite simply because he was not satisfied with his condition: too long, too hard work, children who died at an early age, daily search for food, labor pains, cold and damp in the homes, various illnesses including some people don't even hear about it today (hunchbacks, harelips ...), exploration of the world prohibited except for a privileged few, entertainment / culture out of reach ...

...


Between the evils you mention, and life connected in 5G, in cars that drive alone, with small weekends in space for the "kings", there is a margin, and maybe even a threshold effect ...

How would you envisage the generalization of this way of life to all the inhabitants of the planet?
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by ABC2019 » 18/07/21, 07:52

dede2002 wrote:Between the evils you mention, and life connected in 5G, in cars that drive alone, with small weekends in space for the "kings", there is a margin, and maybe even a threshold effect ...

How would you envisage the generalization of this way of life to all the inhabitants of the planet?


Personally, it doesn't appeal to me at all, but it doesn't appeal to me at all to watch hours of IHU videos, so obviously not everyone has the same tastes ...
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Re: Degrowth by Timothée Parrique




by Grelinette » 18/07/21, 13:02

I read diagonally but this subject ("Degrowth") is interesting although it now looks like a chestnut tree, so a recurring subject that comes back with new reflections, visions from other prisms ... (although, on the bottom, there is ultimately nothing very new under the sun because ideas and antagonisms seem to have become firmly encysted in immutable positions depending on the camp in which their defenders find themselves).

The declarations on degrowth, its necessity, its inevitability according to some, reminds me of the unanimous declarations of political, economic and financial leaders when the Covid19 epidemic started: "The world after will not be the same!" , another form of "Degrowth is inevitable").

And then finally the world after looks furiously like the world before, and even worse, because the human activities that characterize the World Before are finally going rather well, even better than in the days of the world before. "At the same time", as our national Manu would say, why one fine morning by opening their shutters on the new world, the powerful and rich of this world would say to themselves: "Here, today I am going to reduce my comfort, share my wealth and my power! ... ". '

What conclusion can we make from this observation?

Quite simply that there is a gap between the ideas, the analyzes, the reflections, the speeches, the theory, etc., and the behaviors, the actions, the reality of the human activities which are fundamentally very down to earth and rest very banally on all-out and short-term profit.

This observation is a faithful illustration of the philosophical aphorism of Blaise Pascal from his Pensées: "The heart has its reasons which reason does not know"; It's as simple as that !

Human behaviors respond more to the objective of immediate pleasure than that of anticipatory thinking, and we now know that the striatal is at the origin of this thoughtless gluttonous behavior, a simple reflex in short.

The man responds, in my opinion, to this adage: "I know that it will not be able to continue reasonably, but it is so good that as long as I can enjoy it, I continue and I will see later", or simply: " That's already taken! ".

In short, unless we grind our striatum less, humanity will continue to grow until it reaches an abstract and distant infinity ...

"But how far will they stop", said Coluche!
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