Political choices to create and maintain unemployment

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Re: Political choices




by Christophe » 25/08/21, 12:04

Macro wrote:Citizen consultation : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:


Okay, but you shouldn't put French people there! : Mrgreen:

ps: I just learned that a Commercial Court was a private institution, like a notary's office in fact ... employees are not even considered civil servants ... crazy ... so we have already privatized justice ? : Shock: : Shock: : Shock:
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Re: Political choices




by humus » 25/08/21, 13:52

Macro wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:
What would you suggest as a change for the yellow vests then?


Citizen consultation : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

An orange vest! : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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Re: Political choices




by humus » 25/08/21, 13:56

Christophe wrote:
Macro wrote:Citizen consultation : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:


Okay, but you shouldn't put French people there! : Mrgreen:

ps: I just learned that a Commercial Court was a private institution, like a notary's office in fact ... employees are not even considered civil servants ... crazy ... so we have already privatized justice ? : Shock: : Shock: : Shock:

For the title you modified, I wanted the subject to remain general, to discuss fatalism and resignation to the order of things vs. the possibility and choice of emancipation from this order of things.
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Re: Political choices to create and maintain unemployment




by Christophe » 25/08/21, 14:20

Ok no worries, what title do you suggest ... I wanted it to be a little less vague ... than "political choices" ...
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Re: Political choices to create and maintain unemployment




by Ahmed » 25/08/21, 15:19

I am quite astonished that the author of the comic strip polarized (in his speech) only on the financial side (maximum deficit, inflation ...), institutional, and did not directly consider the social pressure on wages and the working conditions caused by unemployment? In a phase of systemic crisis, establishing pressure of this type amounts to increasing the difference in potential between the rich and the poor, and therefore to partially and temporarily remedy its consequences (I would remind you that in a state of equilibrium (which constitutes the absurd basic postulate of economists) nothing happens ...).

More general remark: this kind of left-wing discourse, moreover sympathetic, perfectly illustrates the historical ambivalence of this positioning and sheds light on its recurring failures. Indeed, what better arguments to justify paradoxically those who are designated as its adversaries than to rely on the same categories which constitute the immanent side of the system? The remark made by ABC à Humus* illustrates this perfectly: it is impossible to attack a system from the inside, by following its logic while pretending to escape it. It is an incoherent approach which easily explains the death, long recorded, of thought on the left for not having known how to define itself other than as an inverted mirror image of non-thought on the right. The right does not think, but therefore remains consistent, so to speak ...

Another remark: the decrease in potential human labor (an expression which is not equivalent to the concept of unemployment) is structural, due to an increase in productivity which is no longer correlated with the possibilities of a proportional increase in its flow.

* Both of which are right, each in his "category".

As a title, I propose: "Is there another possible life outside of TINA?" : Cheesy:
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Re: Political choices to create and maintain unemployment




by humus » 26/08/21, 08:19

Christophe wrote:Ok no worries, what title do you suggest ... I wanted it to be a little less vague ... than "political choices" ...

Something like: "The place of political choice in the face of what seems to be fatality" but basically it is not very serious if it remains as it is, we are not close to a few digressions! : Lol:
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Re: Political choices




by humus » 26/08/21, 08:37

sen-no-sen wrote:
Determinisms do not disempower humans! We must not confuse determinism and fatalism.
Determinism is to make simple the action step by step according to a principle of causality.

I do not see much difference there indeed. "The step by step action according to a principle of causality" to which the human can change something, or not?
To describe a chain of cause and effect as set in stone when it is decontextualized from possible corrective actions is for me the equivalent of fatalism.
The object of this subject is precisely to highlight the possibilities of action in the face of determinisms that are no longer there, from the moment a corrective action has radically changed the trajectory.

PS: this video on unemployment was only an example to discuss more generally the possible actions in the face of what is wrong: RC, growth / collapse etc.
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Re: Political choices to create and maintain unemployment




by humus » 26/08/21, 08:48

Ahmed wrote:* Both of which are right, each in his "category".

Yes but no.
In absolute terms, everyone is right in their category, indeed, but there is one category which does not cover the entire problem, nor the entirety of the possible.
This category is at least wrong on this point.

Ahmed wrote:it is impossible to attack a system from the inside, by following its logic while pretending to escape it. It is an incoherent approach which easily explains the death, long recorded, of thought on the left for not having known how to define itself other than as an inverted mirror image of non-thought on the right. The right does not think, but therefore remains consistent, so to speak ... ".

Absolutely, +1000, we are not revolting enough.
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Re: Political choices to create and maintain unemployment




by renaud67 » 26/08/21, 09:11

it does not date from yesterday
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Re: Political choices to create and maintain unemployment




by Ahmed » 26/08/21, 11:00

Unemployment is a paradoxical phenomenon, at least in absolute terms: our "modern" * society is founded on the universality of work and its obligation, work which it constantly promotes by ritually invoking "job creation" * *. However, and "at the same time" (sic), it strives to increase productivity (another of its imperative foundations), which at a certain level of production, which is the one currently observed, objectively amounts to destroying just as overwhelmingly jobs ... If we continue to reason immanently *** in the system, universal income seems the solution to get out of this impasse, since the "work of consumption" thus made possible can continue to grow. flow and therefore allow the work of production ...
Except that we must not think only in terms of sensitive wealth ****, but also of abstract value (as had already sensed Ricardo). If we introduce this parameter, which makes it possible to explain many things, we see that this palliative cannot create an illusion for long: only a massive mobilization of human labor corresponds to the criteria for the systemic functioning of capitalism (this term taken neutral and purely nominative). If we rely on determinisms, there will necessarily be a shift towards another system, based on other principles. Until now, technoscience and economics have worked in close synergy: although the abstract domination of the economy is more keenly felt on a daily basis by its obligated agents than the other factor, it is possible that the evolution of the world will ultimately orient itself. towards a technosphere and that the economy was only the initiator. This is naturally a hypothesis (which I wish to be false), but which is consistent with the current process, provided that the right observation instruments ***** are used and that the recent convergence of new digital technologies, AI and nano ...

* I use this term to situate it, not in an appreciative way.
** Note that these jobs are desired in an abstract way, without any consideration for their concrete usefulness, since their real implicit usefulness is to conform to the social form in force.
*** As you correctly note, Humus: "... but there is a category which does not cover the whole of the problem, nor the whole of the possible ones."
**** Concept that should first be questioned before accepting it as obvious!
***** Above all to abandon the instruments which serve to describe the existing as a permanence!
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