Is making durable is incompatible with growth?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 01/12/12, 23:02

Oulâaaah, but did some of you not know it? Janic is right, it's been a long time since there are only two or three global manufacturers for a lot of things!

I could not give names of brands, but I know for example that there are manufacturers of household appliances which are counted on the fingers of the hand and which specialized, but which manufacture for almost all the others, according to specific specifications. A few rare irons for almost ALL brands, one or two others make washing machines for all, a little less for the fridges (albeit ...) the same for cookers and so on! Look for example at what happened to the flat screen panels, with the Samsung-Sony + LG consortium (S-LCD launched in 2003-2004 from memory) making almost 40% of all screens in the world.
On the photo side Sony manufactures more than 56% of CCD sensors and more than 33% of CMOS which are found in your photo or video cameras up to mobile phones:

Image

so whatever the brand of camera, you have almost a XNUMX% chance that it is equipped with a Sony sensor, for example.

And so on ... In the automobile also there are countless alliances to manufacture engines in common, hulls for minivans or what do I know! Consider also the equipment manufacturers ... The biggest concentration is for computer chips, a few years ago, Motorola made Power-PC chips for Apple, since then, the apple company has switched to Intel. .. Now there are only 2 or 3 ... maximum 4 ...

At one time also, there were still a lot of manufacturers of recorders, CDs, DVDs etc ... But today, how many are left? Where did the leaders of the Plextor era go on this market? The Company? Yamaha? etc ...

By cons emerged the first prices of the time, strangers who have become among the leaders today (normal they had to already manufacture for everyone at the time ...) like Liteon, Benq or LG ...
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by Flytox » 01/12/12, 23:16

Ahmed wrote:"... study a fictitious thing to see if it can work", yes, a hypothesis ...

Study / see if it's better, or even less bad, but by definition utopia does not "work".

In a way, it is the permanent failure of the system to achieve its goals that founds its legitimacy to pursue its research: after all, a classic figure in religious teleology!

+1; Difficult to say it better !!! 8) 8) 8) : Mrgreen:
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by Giul » 02/12/12, 07:18

To go back to the technique, the newspaper Le Temps of 8.10.12 had produced a good article on planned obsolescence:

"These stratagems to encourage consumption"
http://www.letemps.ch/Facet/print/Uuid/ ... nsommation

access seems limited: you have to register to read it, but I was sent extracts:

"La Bonne Combine is the French-speaking reference in appliance repair." Observe this module, "says Felice Suglia, bringing a printed circuit board." It is the heart of a television set. The capacitors are soldered right next to the "a heat diffuser linked to transistors. The capacitors are sensitive to heat. Why did Samsung put them here, when there is room at the other end of the module?" asks the repairman. "
Take a look at the latest washing machines: marks crimp the bearings in the tub. This makes it almost impossible to replace these bearings when they are worn, given the cost of a new tank. ”

As a result, the devices are less and less repairable. “A few years ago, we could repair 8 out of 10 devices for small and large appliances. Now it's 7 out of 10. The rate is even lower for electronics, continues Christophe Inaebnit. Some devices are very surprisingly designed. ” Asked about its televisions, Samsung defends: "Our research and development department ensures that the components are placed in the best place in the confined space of a TV," said a spokesperson.

Further on, the manager of La Bonne Combine shows a ripped iPad. “Apple uses a double-sided tape with a solidity that we have never seen before. To access the electronic components, you must peel off the tape with a heat gun. At the slightest error in handling, the tablet is destroyed, ”warns the manager.
This simple question joins the growing flow of questions about the reliability of the devices.
"The most extreme form of planned obsolescence is when the manufacturer plans very precisely the lifespan of its devices." You find a lot of eloquent testimonies on the Internet, whose veracity seems indisputable, explains Toni Conde, expert in multimedia and communication systems and lecturer at EPFL Certain manufacturers of memory cards, for cameras or telephones, limit the number of possible recordings. Beyond a certain quota, the card becomes unusable. Ditto for printers, some of which are programmed to hang after a certain number of prints. ”
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by Ahmed » 02/12/12, 09:31

Planned obsolescence is an established fact; the difficulty for manufacturers is no longer so much to shorten the life of their products as to ensure that, despite embrittlement, the devices can go beyond the validity of the warranty.

Various techniques are implemented to achieve this, e.g. on flat screens the power supply capacitors would be, (from what I learned from an amateur repairman who takes advantage of this bias to "resuscitate "screens thrown in recycling center; can someone confirm?) specially configured for this purpose.

With regard to repairability, the increasing integration of electronic components on printed circuits makes it impossible to replace a defective component (elements too small and too close together, connection tabs too short, tracks of the circuit too thin).
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by the middle » 02/12/12, 10:00

But yes, all that is true, and as far as Europe is concerned, the European Union is the main culprit and ... it is willed on its part.
As a reminder, it creates laws with stars for power consumption, but not for sustainability.
You have to produce, sell, but reduce electricity consumption ...
And .. our nuk plants are expensive and dangerous ...
Oops, it's snowing
Well, back to our shorn sheep, the European Union is in the pay of the industrialists, and that is not good.
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by manitou22 » 02/12/12, 17:16

Hello,
When personally, if I have several devices like toasters that are farting in succession, well I no longer eat toast! Too bad for the manufacturer
My washing machine is a basic front with three buttons, the one found in several brands, I have boned two of different brands to constitute the current one that has been working for several years (of course, we must ban machines digital screen, variable capa and others, these are synonymous with boredom in the short term). The only department where I put the price is the tools; the low end is really stew and a brand that wants to sell to the pros has an interest in ensuring quality
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by gegyx » 02/12/12, 17:37

Yes, it is often the chemical capacitors which swell and leak which are the cause of the breakdown of PC screens and PCs.
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by Obamot » 27/02/13, 01:37

It does not answer the central question of the thread:

«Make sustainable, is it incompatible with growth "

Gegyx wrote:Oh sorry: what else is this c ... useless?


"Freedom of expression" without a doubt?
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by Did67 » 27/02/13, 09:48

I think that is not the right question! Growth is not an objective! Or even full employment!

Remember Coluche: "Work? Give them the money and they will be happy!"

Basically, man needs the satisfaction of his needs (with a hierarchy in these needs: food, health, housing / heating, etc ...).

Imagine that everything is robotic: everyone would be unemployed ...

Besides, idleness would be a more appropriate term ...

This does not mean that we would not do anything: we would have active "hobbies", some of which (DIY, gardening ...) are similar to the salaried activities of some!

To come back to the question: if we can in 5 hours make a machine that satisfies a need for a lifetime, instead of making one in 3 h which lasts less than 10 years, that would create idleness, c 'is on. But what happiness !!!

Simply note that there is also progress (compare my mother's 1st washing machine 50 years ago to that of today) ... So there would still be things to produce or "re. -produce"...

Finally, let us note that some are "addicts": that one explains to me the decisive progress which justifies that one replaces with gold price an Iphone 4 by an Iphone 5 ????

So the simple question quickly becomes complicated, and we understand that the "leaders" (Europe, WTO but also companies) still have a bright future ahead of them!

About planned obsolescence: who saw this ad for the new Honda Civic guaranteed 1 million km ??? : http://www.honda.fr/car/content/index.f ... tAodc2IAaw

(well, over 10 years; that's 100 km per year for 000 years; excluding professionals - that doesn't make many people! What would be clever, would be to buy a co-ownership so that 'she drives all the time ...)
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by elephant » 27/02/13, 10:00

Growth will still exist: nothing is eternal and the number of humans on earth is constantly increasing, businesses are created, households are founded, etc.

Must say: take a Chinese-made office chair:

changing the thicknesses of steel would cost 2 or 3 euros, without significantly increasing labor costs.
The firm would still sell, and it would steal customers from the competition because its M / O is cheap.

(I'm sitting on an office chair saved from breakage in 1986, same thing for my letter trays (Leitz) as for my metal desk: a gray pot, a yellow pot and presto. Given the style, I think it dates from the 50s)

By cons, it must be recognized that a printer of 100 euros today is still something other than my Tandy daisy from 1986 (20 kilos, 2500 euros)
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