Falling stock markets, start of global decline?

[bham]

An interesting light in the diplomatic world through an article by Frederic Lordon; an extract there:

1987, 1997, 2000, 2007

Financial crises, learn nothing from them ...
Elsewhere, the decision would have been deemed "populist". But it was in London, the city's stronghold and the financial heart of Europe, that the government of Mr. Gordon Brown decided to nationalize a large bank in difficulty, the Northern Rock. Certainly, it would only be a “temporary transfer of property to the public sector”. The fact remains that it is in the homeland of Mrs. Margaret Thatcher that the State intervenes. Its missions: to pay off debts, after having already guaranteed deposits on public funds, a commitment of 55 billion pounds (72 billion euros) ; then chase the bad payers - the ones who are thoughtlessly into debt. Once the cleaning has been carried out, the bank must return to the private sector, according to an old principle: nationalization of losses and privatization of profits. Germany flew to the rescue of the IKB Deutsche Industriebank. In the United States, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch had to call on sovereign wealth funds from Asia and the Near East. These financial gusts are not new. Predictable, they are part of a deregulation movement which, in France, started just twenty-five years ago.
By Frédéric Lordon

and continued there: http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2008/03/LORDON/15659

[dirk pitt]

when I hear about "regulation" of prices for pellets or even oil, I am always a little dubious. a certain amount of volatility surely exists because here and there, one or more smart ones can speculate by doing what in the end: ?? To speculate is to buy or sell at specific times in the market to influence that market. But let's not forget that the market principle is supply and demand and that this principle works because it is based on a large number of actors. therefore speculation is limited to the percentage of influence of speculators.
for oil for example: no one sets the price of oil. Even OPEC represents only 40% of world production. (well I admit that 40% is already a very important player)
if demand goes down, the price goes down, if supply goes down, the price goes up. the phenomena of variations are very complex because they are a function of human reactions: psychological price thresholds that lower demand, etc. They can also be a function of external parameters: limitation of supply by saturation of production (this is what which is about to arrive with oil)

Here, I take an example that some Internet users will not have failed to live: on Ebay, if you sell something that is not uncommon and that does not interest many people, you will not have much bidder. on the other hand if you sell the latest fashionable thing available in limited quantity, the auctions will go up.

for pellets, the volatility comes from the fact that at the start, the number of players is low. the demand increases ---> the price increases -----> another supplier settles down because it is said that it is worth the cost ----> therefore the supply increases ---> the price decreases and is stabilizes.

In the market economy, the cost price is not directly linked to the sale price, it is just a component of it.

an African colleague to whom I remarked that in Africa the price of things is rarely displayed gave me in response the best definition of the market economy: The price of a thing is the compromise between the price at which the seller is willing to let go and the price the buyer is willing to put.

[Ahmed]

Hello,
New on this forum, I would like to come back to Christophe's words:

I don't like the term degrowth ... too much taken from the "extremists" .... it is mental degrowth especially yes ...

The decrease is incompatible with the deepest feelings of the man seeking for the most part: progress, evolution, education ... in short: to know and want "more". This more is not necessarily pejorative, far from it!

I therefore prefer the concept of a more human and more environmentally friendly growth, no longer based solely on the outdated GDP index and on the good wishes of stock traders ...

I noted a certain imprecision in a certain number of posts which lead to hazardous interpretations. This is the case here: decreasing as a concept, only applies to the aspect purely economic. It goes without saying that it does not concern human aspects, on the contrary: it is by limiting the sphere of the economy that individual and collective autonomy can be expressed more fully. This is what, alone, will make it possible to pass from the reducing status of producer / consumer to that of citizen.
I know that, basically, that's what you meant: don't blame me for this requirement of rigor, but I think it is necessary if we want to move forward.
I would like to give another very simple example: GDP. This is a figure which translates the intensity of trade.
To want to add negative value judgments to it is to adopt the method of those who use it to justify the utopia of economic growth.
It should never be forgotten that the figures have no meaning in themselves and that they never dispense with an analysis. Mathematics has replaced Latin to hide reality and prohibit understanding.
PS: I don't think I am an extremist!
[/at]

[bham]

Mathematics has replaced Latin to hide reality and prohibit understanding.

Surprising analysis, but one that I don't dislike.
Could you extrapolate, possibly on a post dedicated to this subject and to teaching / education?

[Ahmed]

In this sentence I do not directly refer to educational considerations. Simply put, I mean that the authorities take hostage the step of science to better close the debate.
The difference is that science is constantly obliged to justify itself, to prove what it claims.
A "shield" of figures and curves allows the floor to be reserved for experts only and disqualifies any substantive debate, and if there is any debate, it is circumscribed in a technical manner.
Mathematics, like Latin in the past, plays an ambiguous role: both a tool of knowledge and an instrument of domination.
Basically, you're right, school is the place where this abstraction is cultivated, this mechanical mind that excludes the world. It is likely that the acquisition of these automations then prompts us to ignore what the figures cover.