Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!

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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by sen-no-sen » 14/05/21, 14:39

thibr wrote:(...)
The security of a blockchain must be measured in Joules because it is the energy expended to calculate it that constitutes an obstacle for fraudsters.
Bitcoin's real name must be "energo-currency". [/ I]


Cryptocurrencies do not escape the principles of maximum entropy production, so virtual finance has nothing virtual in name ...
The next step should therefore consist, always according to the same principle, to optimize the production of crypto, that is to say to spend less energy per unit produced.
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 14/05/21, 14:59

Ok except that a crypto ... bin as it is virtual it is pure energy (instantaneous and gray) ... it seems to me not? We cut the electrical energy ... there is no crypto any more !!

I mean that there is STRICTLY NOTHING tangible behind ... therefore reducing the energy intensity of crypto bins is ... ultimately reducing their value ...

It smells like Schrödinger's pussy there!

Is Jme going wrong or not? : Mrgreen:
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Ahmed » 14/05/21, 15:03

The next step should therefore consist, always according to the same principle, to optimize the production of crypto, that is to say to spend less energy per unit produced.

Yes, as soon as a way is found to dissipate more energy globally by increasing the total mass of money ...

For Christophe: all currency is virtual, Bitcoin is just like any other. The only difference is that the process of spending energy is straightforward in the case of cryptocurrencies, while it is mediated by work in the general case.
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 14/05/21, 15:19

Ahmed wrote:For Christophe: all currency is virtual, Bitcoin is just like any other.


Not true: money has long been correlated with gold (or silver or various other precious metals or stones or even shells at the birth of money) ... real good (s) ...

Ahmed wrote:whereas it is mediated by work in the general case.


Not true: you can pay in crypto, so it's a lot of work ...

Ahmed, tell us ... are you slacking off right now? Vaccination can be? : Shock: : Cry: : Cheesy:
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by sen-no-sen » 14/05/21, 15:33

Christophe wrote:(...)
I mean that there is STRICTLY NOTHING tangible behind ... therefore reducing the energy intensity of crypto bins is ... ultimately reducing their value ...


When I was referring to optimization, it was in terms of mining technology; current operations are way too energy intensive, which is doom crypto in the short term.
To ensure that the goose that lays the golden eggs continues to exist it is imperative that the mining technology is optimized, they have no choice anyway.


PS: A currency is always virtual, because the currency is a symbolic representation of energy with regard to a given frame of reference.
Gold, for example, has no interest in animals, well except for magpies!
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Ahmed » 14/05/21, 15:36

Christophe, the backing of the currency to a metal should not create an illusion: the value of the metal (gold or silver) was itself fictitious. This is what surprised the Incas for whom gold was only an element of decoration without any particular value ... But once the initial plundering carried out, the extraction of the ore required a work which transmitted then its value to metal. The renunciation of this representation was gradual, first through the face values, then by the disappearance of the metal in favor of the scriptural value ... and it works just as well!

On the second point mentioned, there is indeed a job since it is people who create these cryptos, using machines and energy ... But, as in the case mentioned above, a process of progressive abstraction appears.
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Flytox » 28/05/21, 23:15

This one claims to be able to drastically reduce the energy consumption of mining:

https://www.developpez.com/actu/315223/ ... -of-Stake/

The major challenge for cryptocurrencies is their energy consumption through what is called mining activity. While it is more often than not felt that the creators of digital currency don't really care, the executives of Ethereum have just presented a plan to reduce the energy consumption of the cryptocurrency considerably. This plan, if carried out properly, should allow them to reduce Ethereum's energy consumption by at least 99%, which could trigger an exodus of Bitcoin investors to this new, greener cryptocurrency.

Bitcoin is absorbing most of the cryptocurrency craze and stigma, leaving Ethereum in the shadows. But Ethereum is anything but small. Its capitalization crossed the symbolic $ 500 billion mark last week, and its energy footprint is just as large. It is estimated that Ethereum mining currently consumes a quarter of half of what Bitcoin mining consumes. According to estimates, this means that a typical Ethereum transaction gobbles up more energy than an average US household uses in a day.



“It's just a huge waste of resources, even if you don't think pollution and carbon dioxide is a problem. There are real consumers, real people, whose electricity needs are being replaced by this stuff, ”said Vitalik Buterin, the 24-year-old Russian-Canadian computer scientist who invented Ethereum. So he set out to put an end to the wasted energy of his invention. Thus, through the Ethereum Foundation, which governs the development of cryptocurrency, it plans to deploy a new code that would greatly reduce its energy consumption.

If the developers are right, then Ethereum's new code could allow transactions to be made using just 1% of the energy consumed today. The new code is based on the Proof-of-Stake algorithm, an algorithm that is said to be less power-hungry than the Proof-of-Work that Bitcoin and Bitcoin are currently based on. Ethereum. “Ethereum will complete the transition to Proof-of-Stake in the next few months, which brings a myriad of improvements theorized for years,” wrote Carl Beekhuizen of the Ethereum Foundation in a blog post today.

“One of the areas we look forward to exploring is new estimates of energy use, as we end a country's energy spending process on consensus,” he said. indicated. In his article, he estimated how much Ethereum would consume after the new code was fully deployed. Since many people use multiple validators, he decided to use the number of unique addresses that have made deposits as an indicator of how many servers exist today.

With his method, Beekhuizen determined that in total, an Ethereum Proof-of-Stake transaction consumes an amount of energy in the order of 2,62 megawatts. According to him, it is not at the level of countries, provinces or even cities, but that of a small locality (approximately 2100 American households). For reference, the Proof-of-Work (PoW) consensus on Ethereum currently consumes the energy equivalent of a midsize country, but this is actually necessary to keep a PoW chain secure. As the name suggests, PoW achieves consensus based on the range on which the work is most important.

Indeed, Beekhuizen explains that there are two ways to increase the rate of "work" done: increase the efficiency of mining equipment and use more equipment at the same time. To prevent a chain from being attacked successfully, miners must do "work" at a faster rate than an attacker. Since an attacker is likely to have similar hardware, miners have to operate large amounts of effective hardware to prevent an attacker from overwhelming them, and all of this hardware consumes a lot of power.

Under the PoW, the price of ETH and hashrate would be positively correlated. Therefore, as the price increases, the energy consumed by the grid also increases in equilibrium. Under Proof-of-Stake (PoS), when the price of ETH increases, the security of the network also increases (the value of ETH at-stake is higher), but the energy requirements remain unchanged . Digiconomist estimates that Ethereum miners currently consume 44,49 TWh per year, which translates to 5,13 gigawatts on an ongoing basis.

This means that PoS is around 2 times more energy efficient, according to the conservative estimates above, which represents a reduction of at least 000% in total power consumption. Beekhuizen estimates that, if the power consumption per transaction is more than your speed, it's around 99,95Wh / tx (average around 35K gas / tx) or around 60 minutes of television. In contrast, Ethereum PoW uses the equivalent energy of a house for 20 days per transaction and Bitcoin would consume the equivalent of 2,8 days / house.

Beekhuizen announced that Ethereum continues to use PoW for now, but that will not be the case for very long. “In recent weeks, we have seen the emergence of the first test networks for The Merge. Several engineering teams are working overtime to make sure The Merge arrives as soon as possible, and without compromising safety, ”he said. Can we imagine that Bitcoin will in the future be boycotted for ecological reasons and that the new, greener Ethereum will become the new popular cryptocurrency?

Source: Carl Beekhuizen
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by ENERC » 29/05/21, 19:45

PoW or PoS?
PoW = proof of work = a lot of energy consumed
PoS = proof of shareholder = the more coins I have, the more influence I have on the validation of transactions

In other words:
PoW: machines (CPU / GPU / ASICS) calculate
PoS: the shareholders' meeting votes on resolutions (= financial transactions).

PoW has the advantage of being fair on paper, but in fact to undermine and be influential you need a lot of machines and therefore be rich, which is almost the same as PoS.

The risk of PoS is that someone with bad intentions massively buys the coins of a crypto, creates his influential node (a masternode) and then falsifies the blockchain to recover the dough.
So nothing is perfect and ETH has had to switch to PoS for years, but they are still in PoW.

Some crypto are experimenting with a mixed 50/50 PoS / PoW solution. This halves the energy consumption and allows testing to see if it resists hacks.
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 08/06/21, 22:03

Musk definitely rains and shines on crypto!

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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Did67 » 30/06/21, 14:34

Ah these South Africans !!!!!


Africrypt platform creators disappear with $ 3,6 billion in bitcoin

The platform, created by two young South African brothers, had not worked since April. It could be the biggest cryptocurrency fraud in history.


A comparable fraud had already occurred in 2020 in South Africa.


The Ameer brothers and Raees Cajee are nowhere to be found. The two South Africans launched their cryptocurrency investment platform, Africrypt in 2019. Disappeared with them: 69 bitcoins, worth at the time of their disappearance of 000 billion dollars, reported Wednesday, June 3,6, the Bloomberg news agency.

In April, Ameer Cajee had informed its customers that the company had allegedly been the victim of a hack, while asking them not to inform the authorities, so as not to hinder the process of recovering the lost funds. .

According to Hanekom Attorneys, a law firm contacted anyway by concerned investors, Africrypt employees had already lost control of the platform for a week when clients were warned, while funds were withdrawn from their accounts. accounts to be transferred to services making them untraceable.

Seeing that the Cajee brothers were unreachable, Hanekom Attorneys then informed South African police of what could be, according to Bloomberg, the biggest cryptocurrency fraud in history.

A comparable fraud had already occurred last year in South Africa even if it concerned at the time "only" 23 bitcoins. Bloomberg recalls, however, that the country's finance authority cannot, as it stands, launch an investigation against companies like Africrypt, as cryptocurrency assets are not considered financial products in South Africa. "


According to Le Monde en ligne, today June 30, 2021.
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