A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
pedrodelavega
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by pedrodelavega » 08/06/16, 22:20

Christophe wrote:Whether painful or not does not change anything: must stop ... sorry but slavery was abolished a few years ago anyway!
There is still a lot of hard work.
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Christophe » 08/06/16, 22:21

Yes it is certain but before being painful, a job must be able to create an income ... that's all I wanted to say ...
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Ahmed » 08/06/16, 22:26

There are many kinds of entrepreneurs: those who act out of passion or, conversely, those who are forced into it by unemployment; few understand the overall functioning of the economy and how a large number of activities are condemned in advance; apart from a few exceptional configurations that manage to reconcile passion and conviction with profit, most will disappear or vegetate.
The illusion of a guaranteed minimum could only encourage us in dead ends ...
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Christophe » 08/06/16, 22:36

Ahmed wrote:The illusion of a guaranteed minimum could only encourage us in dead ends ...


Why so much categorism?

IF 1/10 businesses launched by the RBI is viable in the long term, it's already a victory isn't it?
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Obamot » 08/06/16, 23:39

pedrodelavega wrote:
Obamot wrote:For small trades, if indeed there would be a leveling since everyone would receive the RBI, the fact remains that the craftsman would no longer be dependent on having to achieve a turnover allowing to clear a threshold of profitability, since part of the income would already be acquired.
If the craftsman does not break even, his work does not increase his income. If his work is strenuous, what happens?

No, he does not need to reach it, since he automatically receives the part of the income that allows him to live.

If I take the classic scheme used in industry and crafts, that of 3 thirds: 1/3 purchase goods, 1/3 FG, 1/3 profit, we can estimate that the RBI could cover 1/3 (when we have a couple it would still be CHF 5 ...)

So if we reason apart from the absurd, he could work without billing his hours, just by selling the supplies!

pedrodelavega wrote:
Christophe wrote:It is not even that it does not increase it ... it is that it does not create any short income for him !!
Yes. I wanted to say: He has the income of his rbi on one side but his work does not increase his income.

And therefore starting from the above, one can redefine the notion of "added value", just as one can understand that it does not take much to "create income", since the constraints of "profitability" are a little more subjective, if we admit for example the seasonal work, where there is "the full boom" (as in agriculture) then we sell a lot, there are profits, then a whole period follows of less important income, where one pulls the devil a little by the tail ... There are indeed lots of activities which are "momentarily" NOT profitable because subjected to a hyper-speculative "economic" model *

Obviously it would be good for a self-employed person not to engage in "unprofitable" activities, that's not what I meant and since precisely the RBI is there to motivate and stimulate activity (and thank you not to make me say what I did not want) But you who always put yourself in the direction of the hair of the establishment, you must never have been independent, because you would have understood immediately where I wanted to come ...

* "a-economic" or æconomic, with the private "a".
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Obamot » 09/06/16, 00:36

NB: and I would add that in general, it would be necessary to ensure that the RBI is not "recovered" by the economic circles, since these could de facto regulate / profit from the RBI through the intermediary of the increase in mortgage rates (they are already regulating the economy with that and with money creation and apparently everyone is okay with it when it's a real scandal), which means that the RBI should necessarily be accompanied by protective measures also enshrined in the Constitution as "the right to housing"or any other measure to limit rates (and block any speculation in this regard)! Otherwise, the increase in rents would stealthily push people to work more, to make the banks earn more ... which would then be the real ones beneficiaries of the RBI system!
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Christophe » 09/06/16, 10:20

Obamot wrote:NB: and I would add that in general, it would be necessary to ensure that the RBI is not "recovered" by the economic circles, since these could de facto regulate / profit from the RBI through the intermediary of the increase in mortgage rates (they are already regulating the economy with that and with monetary creation and apparently everyone is okay with it when it is a real scandal) (...)


Good suggestion but I think you still believe in Santa Claus ??? Obviously it will be recovered ... on this point as on others!

Goldman Sachs now makes sports predictions ... which is to say the generosity of their field of "competence" ...
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Ahmed » 09/06/16, 10:59

Christophe, you write;
IF 1/10 businesses launched by the RBI is viable in the long term, it's already a victory isn't it?

Besides that it is only a free assumption, it would only be a victory for the economy and, to maintain the cause to fight against the consequences is a very average reasoning ...
As the dialogue between you and Obamot, the proper theoretical functioning of the UK implies rules which go against its initial presuppositions (and which, if they could prevail today would probably render the UK useless ...).
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Christophe » 09/06/16, 11:02

Yes but ... What would be the solution then for you?

Break everything and start on a new economic basis?
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Re: A first RBI (Unconditional Basic Income) paid in Switzerland!




by Obamot » 09/06/16, 11:32

Christophe wrote:
Obamot wrote:NB: and I would add that in general, it would be necessary to ensure that the RBI is not "recovered" by the economic circles, since these could de facto regulate / profit from the RBI through the intermediary of the increase in mortgage rates (they are already regulating the economy with that and with monetary creation and apparently everyone is okay with it when it is a real scandal) (...)


Good suggestion but I think you still believe in Santa Claus ??? Obviously it will be recovered ... on this point as on others!

It would be well to read everything, it is suggested in the main post (where you only quote the Nota-Bene) that the current situation is an "economic" model, or anti-economic in the long term (and even already now) since we are in the process of eating up our capital of natural resources at high speed whereas if we respected an ecological model (and even biodynamic as other living species are capable of doing) we should preserve it with a hyper-minimalist management which cannot be compatible with the speculative economic model (except what we can "give back to nature" and which can benefit it as fertilizer, i.e. our excrement, lol), since in nature all the speculation is used for preservation / fructification ( I mean in a natural environment excluding any artificial artifact produced by man).

The future of humanity will be baba-cool or not! : Cheesy:
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