Public debt: bankruptcy of Greece ... who's next?

[Christophe]

I don't see anything in what Seguin says that confirms what you are saying ("Econologie2 talks about listening to the 1st minute, I suppose it's you )

Well he says that a large part of the taxes will go to repaying the debt (therefore implying his interests ...)

I maintain that the graph you are showing is misleading. The green curve gives only the current account deficit. (...) We know that we have spent decades beyond our means. The debt has therefore been increasing for decades.

Read the source of the curve: http://www.dettepublique.org/ everything is summarized in the intro:

Between 1973 and 2008, just for interest on the public debt, we paid 1320 billion euros!

The rest is also interesting;

Indeed, since 1973, the state has voluntarily dispossessed of its fundamental duty to issue useful currency to citizens, money that our economy needs, and the state borrows from private banks, to which it then pays huge interest. In the age of "faltering purchasing power" and "empty coffers", it is no longer acceptable that our money, resulting from our work, does not belong to us. We suffer the consequences of this betrayal every day: degradation of employment and public services, endless race for growth, destruction of the environment, etc.

We therefore suggest that you act through citizen mobilization, by post and electronic petition, to restore the legitimate rights of Nations
to issue their own currency.

I think this graph simply shows that it increases much more because of interest than deficits ...but it is politically incorrect to say so and to question the system ... it is better to attack the poor civil servants than the rich bankers ...

If the green curve indicated the accumulated debt, the green curve would be much higher, since the debt would have been cumulated with previous years.

Well no because "we" still reimburse part of it ... and apparently it is well balanced ... except that with interest it is not balanced ... and it never will be! All taxpayers in an indebted country therefore have banks as a macro ...

[bamboo]

I don't see anything in what Seguin says that confirms what you are saying ("Econologie2 talks about listening to the 1st minute, I suppose it's you )

Well he says that a large part of the taxes will go to repaying the debt (therefore implying his interests ...)

No, if I have to take a picture, it just says that when you borrow for your house, you then spend a large part of your salary on loan repayment.

Read the source of the curve: http://www.dettepublique.org/ everything is summarized in the intro:

Between 1973 and 2008, just for interest on the public debt, we paid 1320 billion euros!

Funny source
It is as if I was going to the site of a union to find out more about the management of the largest CE in France

I think this graph simply shows that it increases much more because of interest than deficits ...

To do this, it would have to give the accumulated debt with interest, compared to the accumulated debt without interest.
You would see a difference there, but not as obvious.

Well no because "we" still reimburse a part ... and apparently it is well balanced ...

It is not balanced at all precisely.
It is as if you bought a TV at € 1200 on credit every month and with 1 credit of 1 year.
Each credit costs you € 100 / month (with 0% interest).
If you have a salary of € 1500 and your home loan costs you € 1000 per month.
Do you have a balanced budget?
In January yes because you repay more than you borrow.
In December, you have to reimburse € 1000 for the house and € 1200 for the 12 TVs. Your budget is no longer balanced.
What is happening with us.

[Christophe]

No, if I have to take a picture, it just says that when you borrow for your house, you then spend a large part of your salary on loan repayment.

Sorry but that is anything as an argument !!
When you take a loan, you know what to expect ... and in the end you pay for SOMETHING ... and above all, it is not imposed on you ...

With public debt we just pay to ENRICH private banks.
40% of the taxes go to the debt, but the debt is made up to more than 90% of accumulated interest ...

If that doesn't shock you, I do ...

Also it is intriguing that as if by "chance" it is roughly since the beginning of the Eighties that it is the "permanent" crisis ... I know that there are other factors but that of the debt in is an annoyance ...

Funny source
It is as if I was going to the site of a union to find out more about the management of the largest CE in France

Anything else ... I just give you the source of the curve so that you understand it better ... for the sake of transparency ...

To do this, it would have to give the accumulated debt with interest, compared to the accumulated debt without interest.
You would see a difference there, but not as obvious.

It is the case ... but it does not matter ...

Or do you want us to count the accumulated deficits that have been reimbursed ???

It is not balanced at all precisely.
It is as if you bought a TV at € 1200 on credit every month and with 1 credit of 1 year.
Each credit costs you € 100 / month (with 0% interest).
If you have a salary of € 1500 and your home loan costs you € 1000 per month.
Do you have a balanced budget?
In January yes because you repay more than you borrow.
In December, you have to reimburse € 1000 for the house and € 1200 for the 12 TVs. Your budget is no longer balanced.
What is happening with us.

Yes you are right (I never said that the debt was not also of the deficit ...) ... but if you take a cofidis loan at X% per MONTH (important in your example since we are talking in months ), well you will be in December much more in the red ...and at some point (after Y months) your income will not be able to offset the runaway interest ...

What is happening with us : deficit + interest by political errors and bowing to bankers for years ...

[Gébé]

What is happening here is the artificial maintenance of our standard of living by borrowing.
It will inevitably find its end one day, but it is well known, it is at the foot of the wall that we will see it (the wall)

[bernardd]

It's easier :

- credit creates money (more than 98% of the money supply has credit as a counterpart!), but money creation is not even enough to repay the interest on loans: it is a pyramid system at the base ;

- anyone who does not have access to credit sees their repayment capacity inexorably decrease: inflation is currently at 10% per year. Be careful, real inflation is the sum of monetary inflation + price inflation! He must therefore work: it is a mild bondage;

- the distribution of credits is confidential and unbalanced: the report on the Icelandic krack is very clear, the credits of the banks went mainly to the owners of the banks (5 page) Is it the same in Europe? Impossible to know.

But only the banks get the interest, about 5% of the money supply per year. It only takes 20 years for the banks to own the entire money supply and buy the physical wealth (real estate and physical products) in an incremental and inevitable manner.

This system only works because most westerners believe that money is needed. This has never been demonstrated and there are counter examples of civilization without money.

[dedeleco]

dedelco had indicated this info:

The plan imposed on Europe by elite financial circles implies countering the indebtedness problem with the help of new borrowings, which will exacerbate rather than remedy the budget problem. According to Eurostat data, in 2010 the Eurozone sovereign debt will grow from 77.7% to 83.6% of the GDP. ...

Another bird of near disaster:
all the banks on the brink of trillions of toxic deposits in the golbal banking system !!
The Global Banks at The Edge of The Precipice. Trillions of "Toxic Waste" in the Global Banking System
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... &aid=21099

Take your precautions !!
And you will accelerate the collapse !!

and gebé summed up this reality of an imminent catastrophe well after having all benefited for years from excessive borrowing by everyone in the western world taking advantage of the intense underpaid work of the chinese and others, who can bankrupt us when it suits them !! !!

What is happening here is the artificial maintenance of our standard of living by borrowing.
It will inevitably find its end one day, but it is well known, it is at the foot of the wall that we will see it (the wall)

We brushed against the wall and avoided by borrowing more but it is still there, higher !!

[bernardd]

We brushed against the wall and avoided by borrowing more but it is still there, higher !!

Normal, since it is the mechanism of concentration of power: the beneficiaries will not suppress it ...

All crises are the moments of purging of non-reimbursed credits: the real values ​​which were mortgaged are transferred to the bankers.

To be concrete: the statistics on the euro are there:
http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/reports.do?node=100000141

The sum of columns 4 and 6 gives the total currency:
End of 2010 Q2: 9,419.2 + 7,126.5 = € 16545,7 billion

The sum of columns 8 and 9 gives the outstanding loans:
End of 2010 Q2: 3,049.2 + 13,238.1 = € 16287,3 billion

Outstanding loans represent 98,4% of the total money supply At the end of 2010 Q2 ... only 1,6% of current money is not created by credit: is it the fossil of basic currencies of the euro , when they were based on gold?

We also see that public credits are weak compared to private credits.

[bamboo]

If that doesn't shock you, I do ...

I am extremely shocked that we spend without counting.

I just find it a shame that we have the wrong target and that we believe that we could spend without counting if we had interest-free loans.

Spending less than what you earn is the most important thing ...

[Christophe]

make it look like you could spend countlessly if you had interest-free loans.

??? But I never said or thought that !! What makes you think ???

Spending less than what you earn is the most important thing ...

Fortunately we invented credit: you can buy more than you have ...

I am vitally against consumer credit ... unless it is 0%

[bamboo]

make it look like you could spend countlessly if you had interest-free loans.

??? But I never said or thought that !! What makes you think ???

I am sure you do not think that, but it is not the case for everyone: many say that we are in shit because of the bad bankers who take interest.
I prefer to say that we would not be in shit if we spent less ...

Spending less than what you earn is the most important thing ...

Fortunately we invented credit: you can buy more than you have ...

Yes, but we are limited to ~ 30% of revenues.
The state goes much further in its debt.

Well we agree on most things, it's just on the interpretation of one of the curves that there is opposition.