Public debt: bankruptcy of Greece ... who's next?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 11/07/15, 19:11

Just a small clarification: companies only pay VAT on value added (they differentiate between VAT on what they buy and the VAT they collect on what they sell. Ultimately, it's the end consumer who pays.

Basically, the VAT has a disadvantage: it is a tax which is not progressive.

But it has a huge advantage: everyone who consumes, even the wealthy, pays!
0 x
User avatar
antoinet111
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 874
Registration: 19/02/06, 18:17
Location: 29 - Landivisiau
x 1




by antoinet111 » 11/07/15, 19:19

it could have a form of increased progressiveness, a great classic: 3% on noodles, and 80% on diamonds ...


or no VAT at all but everything in income tax with at least 15 installments.
0 x
I vote for the writing of concrete post and practicality.
Down the talkers and ceiling fans!
The shadow
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 171
Registration: 13/04/08, 15:16
x 2




by The shadow » 11/07/15, 21:46

Did67 wrote:Just a small clarification: companies only pay VAT on value added (they differentiate between VAT on what they buy and the VAT they collect on what they sell. Ultimately, it's the end consumer who pays.

Basically, the VAT has a disadvantage: it is a tax which is not progressive.

But it has a huge advantage: everyone who consumes, even the wealthy, pays!
> it is FALSE
I saw thanks to a friend 50 million VAT to pay which put her in shit : Evil: now he's in Spain and his box is buzzing in the media
VAT = anti-economy : Evil:
0 x
User avatar
antoinet111
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 874
Registration: 19/02/06, 18:17
Location: 29 - Landivisiau
x 1




by antoinet111 » 12/07/15, 09:17

Wait, something I don't get, your friend, he collected this VAT so it doesn't change anything for him to return it, unless he played with it and slammed it ...

it is probably not for this reason that it is crossed out.
0 x
I vote for the writing of concrete post and practicality.

Down the talkers and ceiling fans!
The shadow
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 171
Registration: 13/04/08, 15:16
x 2




by The shadow » 12/07/15, 11:15

Much simpler he had to pay this VAT twice : Cry: which put her in a dire financial situation : Cry: You know the famous law of series
It does not matter (in hindsight) he now has a pleasant life in MALAGA : Mrgreen:
0 x
User avatar
antoinet111
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 874
Registration: 19/02/06, 18:17
Location: 29 - Landivisiau
x 1




by antoinet111 » 12/07/15, 11:23

this is a special case, however, you should know that the VAT in Spain is 21%! so it would be good for once to stop the "France Baching" Shit we live in a great country, and one of the richest in the world, it's not perfect, but I've been voting against this one for a while but Shit to the end...
0 x
I vote for the writing of concrete post and practicality.

Down the talkers and ceiling fans!
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 12/07/15, 11:51

Did67 wrote:Just a small clarification: companies only pay VAT on value added (they differentiate between VAT on what they buy and the VAT they collect on what they sell. Ultimately, it's the end consumer who pays.

Basically, the VAT has a disadvantage: it is a tax which is not progressive.

But it has a huge advantage: everyone who consumes, even the wealthy, pays!


it's true except exception ...

and there are big exceptions that make the VAT more viscous than we think

the poor spend all their money in France so pay VAT on everything they spend ... the rich travel a lot and spend money without paying VAT in France

I also know people who create SCI (real estate civil society) to put their house or their castle there: all their maintenance and construction costs are made in the name of SCI which recovers VAT as a business ... and it escape VAT
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 12/07/15, 12:00

Shadow wrote:I saw thanks to a friend 50 million VAT to pay which put it in shit: evil: now it is in Spain and its box makes the buzz in the media
VAT = anti-economy: evil:


Dig deeper into the subject: your "friend" has collected VAT from his customers (this amount which is not the result of his work or his added value - it's just a tax that he adds at the bottom invoices, on behalf of the State; the remuneration for his work is the HT), he deducts the VAT he himself paid on purchases / investments, and he must, quite rightly, difference to the State (difference between what he received for the State and what he paid) ...

If he misses what he collected on behalf of the State, and not as remuneration for his activity, it is because he spent it. Wrongly.

Which probably explains why he lives very well today !!!

Build a state with such people, and you'll end up in Greece! [this is exactly what happens in Greece, with a lot of business being done in "cash", therefore without VAT).

Not spending the VAT money to have it when the tax authorities demand it, this is called "managing your cash" [there is nothing illegal about using it in the meantime!]

Everyone can verify what I say: take your receipt from the supermarket. It shows the amount excluding taxes of the goods (it is the sum that you have just paid and which pays the goods, the charges, the supermarket taxes ...) and the VAT (which is a collection by the supermarket, on behalf of the State. The HT goes into the supermarket accounts. The VAT is managed in a VAT account, where there is what the supermarket has collected. AND also what he paid his suppliers. The difference "belongs" to the state. Not at the supermarket.
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 12/07/15, 12:30

chatelot16 wrote:
it's true except exception ...

and there are big exceptions that make the VAT more viscous than we think

the poor spend all their money in France so pay VAT on everything they spend ... the rich travel a lot and spend money without paying VAT in France

I also know people who create SCI (real estate civil society) to put their house or their castle there: all their maintenance and construction costs are made in the name of SCI which recovers VAT as a business ... and it escape VAT


Far from me the idea that the VAT would be perfect [you read me often, so you know my "philosophical" thought: in this low world, I have not yet encountered perfection - you have to live and do, do, however - of "less than perfect" - or spending his time lying to himself, saying to himself that "I will do when it is perfect" - eternal adolescents never out of their crisis, etc.]

1) Yes, when you are rich, there are plenty of tips - nevertheless, they pay VAT where they consume ... Tomorrow in Greece? And conversely ,; foreigners pay VAT in France (except "tax free" on large purchases for non-EU residents).

2) Does the SCI then collect the VAT on the rents?

[but you're right, in the investment phase, a "VAT account" is an advantage: we buy more than we sell then, so we have a positive balance, the State "returns" VAT ... But normally, this does not last! Because otherwise, a company that eternally invests more than it sells ends up ... like Greece, in bankruptcy! We must take stock in the very long term ...]
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963




by Ahmed » 12/07/15, 12:30

I fully agree with your explanations on VAT, Did!

On the inequality (non proportionality) of this tax, it is obvious that if the rich pay a little more than the poor in absolute value, it is the opposite in relative value, since the various investments and investments escape it in different ways (legally, but also through fraudulent companies): there is therefore no proportionality to the level of wealth.

Regarding Greece, Antoinette, it is misleading to consider things from the small end of the telescope: frauds of all kinds (which is not a local specificity) result for a large part from the decline of the productive apparatus; they are more the consequence than the cause, since the structural difficulties push to resort to these expedients.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Economy and finance, sustainability, growth, GDP, ecological tax systems"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 108 guests