Meat without meat.

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Meat without meat.




by sen-no-sen » 17/04/16, 23:41

The French let themselves be seduced by "meat without meat"


Global sales of meat substitutes are expected to jump 6,4% each year between 2015 and 2020, reaching almost € 5 billion. In France, so-called “vegetarian” products have experienced good growth over the past year.
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The WHO diagnosis risks weighing on the French appetite for meat. According to an evaluation published on Monday, the consumption of cold meats is carcinogenic and that of red meat "probably" too. A very large perimeter since pork is included in it as well as beef, veal, lamb, sheep, horse and goat. Alternatives to these products exist and intend to make a growing place in the landscape. “Meat without meat” - or meat substitutes - based on soybeans, wheat and other proteins are booming worldwide, especially in North America and Europe. This market is expected to increase by 6,4% in value at an annual rate between 2015 and 2020, to reach 5,17 billion dollars (4,68 billion euros), according to a study by the Market and Markets Institute.


http://www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2015/10/26/05007-20151026ARTFIG00263-les-francais-se-laissent-seduire-par-la-viande-sans-viande.php

Meat without meat (meatless) begins to make a splash on the other side of the Atlantic and already begins to seduce the big monopolies of the agro-food around the world. Taking into account the gigantic impact of the breeding on the environment (GHG emission, pollution of soils and rivers, oceans, animal suffering etc ...) and social (obesity, cancer etc ...) such a sector alone would produce a major ecological and social change whose scope seems to me still largely understated.

Indeed rare are the inventions which align such a large number of positive points, moreover the innovative aspect and are cost (in the relatively low term) would represent a potential of success of which it seems difficult to me to prevent the rise: part by satisfying the major economic monopolies (guaranteed profitability, growing sector,greenwashing ), on the other by suiting a large part of the population largely contaminated by the development of junk food.
Recall that livestock contributes to 14% of greenhouse gas emissions ... not counting deforestation.
.... 80% of deforestation in the Amazon is caused by the expansion of breeding grounds and crops (generally GMO soy which is used to feed cattle raised in feedlots).
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Re: Meat without meat.




by Obamot » 18/04/16, 02:11

It's a slippery slope .... But thank you for launching this interesting thread.
I'm more for a few details (but these sectors will undoubtedly improve.)

Because if they are soybean steaks, roasting them will produce "TRANS" fatty acids that are harmful to health.
If public health agencies were doing their job properly, they should ban what is dangerous or harmful, or they did not. And of course only authorize products if we know that they are safe in the long term: but here they are! It is therefore up to the fairly destitute consumer to do so and that crumbles the credibility of these services, alas.

And why make soy steak - potentially harmful - when we would not need it since there is already the wonderful and delicious tofu (safe not roasted.) That is to say if for now the info distilled on these subjects is unconvincing. To this is added the question of transgenic soybeans. We haven't gone around yet.

As for meat substitutes having been produced from stem cells (and which we haven't talked about for a while), I don't see how this meat would be less carcinogenic than the "real" one.

Will have to see ...
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Re: Meat without meat.




by sen-no-sen » 18/04/16, 11:06

Obamot wrote:
If public health agencies were doing their job properly, they should ban what is dangerous or harmful, or they did not. And of course only authorize products if we know that they are safe in the long term: but here they are! It is therefore up to the fairly destitute consumer to do so and that crumbles the credibility of these services, alas.



Political powers are at the orders of economic monopolies, it is a fact.
Wanting to ban all that is dangerous would be idealism ... see totalitarianism for many consumers.
Because it would therefore be necessary to ban tobacco, alcohol, strongly tax red meat, sugar ... not sure that it is to everyone's taste.
We must remain pragmatic, the ban can only affect food additives (monosodium glutamate, aspartame etc ...) at best, the rest is in fact too much cultural.
As for meat without meat, even if it is not free from defects, the latter presents a very convincing benefit / risk / health / animal welfare / environment.

And why make soy steak - potentially harmful - when we wouldn't need it since there is already the wonderful and delicious tofu (harmlessly not roasted.)


Well, you will ask a "meat man" to replace his steak with "delicious" tofu ... and we discuss it again! : Mrgreen:
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Re: Meat without meat.




by Obamot » 18/04/16, 12:44

Well if you have to wait for the stroke, after that the problem is solved indeed (except if the patient survives but there it can be very expensive to recover.)

You have identified the points that interest you, would you have omitted the main one which are the "TRANS" fatty acids resulting from cooking at high temperature. There it is not yet cultural since meat without meat has not yet entered the customs, the authorities could act.

Precisely on cultural questions, this is a point on which I partially agree with you, it is not a question of "prohibiting" but of issuing directives to "replace" poisons by their healthy substitutes. It has been going on for more than half a century and we are not there yet.

Then we can tax sweet sodas as Sarkozy had undertaken (it was not such a bad idea, like the tobacco and alcohol taxes that already exist. And so have become part of everyday life.)

While I don't like it that much, I'm against coercive measures that are often counterproductive and haven't stopped people from drinking or smoking (even if it has slowed the boat down a bit.)

That said, your thread is worth a detour and I hope that the solution will be found in the direction that you suggest. For my part I had made meatless steak substitutes with wholegrain rice and the spices that suited me and I confirm that if you want, you can get things close to meat ..! You have to find the right mix (with no side effect).
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Re: Meat without meat.




by sen-no-sen » 18/04/16, 14:56

Obamot wrote:would you have omitted the main one which are the fatty acids "TRANS" resulting from the cooking at high temperature.


Certainly, but still less than with "real meat" steaks and without the problems associated with heme (which contains heme iron, the main cause of colonic carcinogenesis).
Nothing prohibits the use of monounsaturated fat for preparations of this kind.

Precisely on cultural questions, this is a point on which I partially agree with you, it is not a question of "prohibiting" but of issuing directives to "replace" poisons with their healthy substitutes.


I agree, but unfortunately (and it's a vegetarian by birth who says that!) It is very, very difficult to change people's eating habits in a short time ... or the wrong way (junk food).

That said, your thread is worth a detour and I hope that the solution will be found in the direction that you suggest. For my part I had made meatless steak substitutes with wholegrain rice and the spices that suited me and I confirm that if you want, you can get things close to meat ..! You have to find the right mix (with no side effect).


Personally meat without meat is of no interest to me, because I hate the taste of meat, so it is certainly not to turn to vegetable products that would taste like it!
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Re: Meat without meat.




by Janic » 19/04/16, 17:27

That said, your thread is worth a detour and I hope that the solution will be found in the direction that you suggest. For my part I had made meatless steak substitutes with wholegrain rice and the spices that suited me and I confirm that if you want, you can get things close to meat ..! You have to find the right mix (with no side effect).
Personally meat without meat is of no interest to me, because I hate the taste of meat, so it is certainly not to turn to vegetable products that would taste like it!

Meat substitutes are mainly used for the transition of tastes from one product to another. Indeed, the taste of meat does not intervene much in the kitchen because what dominates is all that is added to it (with a few rare exceptions of course!) Now the vegetable preparations use substantially the same ingredients for cooking, for accommodation , as meat preparations, to the point that some gastronomers are mistaken elsewhere.
So the oppositions are more cultural or of principle in some.
There remains the “myth” of soya, used especially at the time when the defenders of animal consumption expressed themselves in terms of “noble” proteins. However this legume being rich in proteins, some defenders of the VG put forward its richness in these aiming to reassure possible consumers who feared a lack, deficiencies.
However, culturally and culturally, we have legumes, other than soybeans, which tastes we are already used to without this plant is no longer particularly justified to others. What does not reject it, but is not worth as much to be highlighted.
The problem with our sedentary people is rather the excess of proteins precisely.
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Re: Meat without meat.




by sen-no-sen » 19/04/16, 20:57

Janic wrote:Meat substitutes are mainly used for the transition of tastes from one product to another.


This is the main advantage of its "meatless" dishes.
Too many people consume meat in industrialized countries, and those from an early age where it is recommended (by dogma) to consume "one meat" for each meal (lunch, dinner) ... all without any basis serious scientist ...
If only 20% of meats were replaced by substitutes, the environmental impact would be enormous.
It is estimated that about 60 to 100 billion animals are killed each year to feed (in) humanity ... :|
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Re: Meat without meat.




by Obamot » 20/04/16, 08:26

It is interesting to see what the WHO recommended as a protein ration in the interwar period ... (because the needs of humans have hardly changed since) ...

This was expressed in gr / kg of body mass, i.e. 1gr per kg / day for an adult.
But as a good part of it had to be covered by vegetal contributions, the share of proteins of animal origin was hardly more than 1 or 2 meals per week! 2 or 3 if we think of the fish once a week (ouch Janic will scalp me ... I just remember historical data)!

So I do not know the reason for such a drift in eating habits, but WHO wished to put a stop to it last year by telling us that the consumption of meat was not safe. Which is a great thing.

So I don't know where these "tips" come from. Do you have a source?

Here is mine (page 414):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2395818/
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Re: Meat without meat.




by Janic » 20/04/16, 10:15

obamot hello
but WHO wished to put a stop to it last year by indicating to us that the consumption of meat was not without danger. Which is a great thing.
but, as usual, a few metros late. It has been decades, centuries, millennia that it was noted that (without labs, nor retorts) the consumption of meats had deleterious effects which disappeared when this antiphysiological consumption was stopped.
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Re: Meat without meat.




by Obamot » 20/04/16, 12:25

This debate on Futur_a was funny, less than 2 months before the WHO press release:
http://forums.futura-sciences.com/debat ... mites.html

: Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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