The industrial obsolescence, history of deception

[Obamot]

Yes, that ... you can say it! Initiatives would therefore be needed to create an "extended" EC standard.

the manufacturer in general in China has nothing to do with the end of life of the product

That on the other hand, it is relatively peremptory.
There was a special correspondent broadcast which showed that the manufacturer produced according to the specifications of his customers, that is to say ... US.

[pb2488]

how can the new buyer estimate the selling price of his new car that he has the intension to sell in 5 years?

It is known the brands that sell well secondhand and those that sell less well.

I think that a manufacturer who would make a good publicity to say: we make cars not necessarily more solid than the others but with diagnostic software for any laptop, and complete technical documentation to facilitate the maintenance

This is detail of the diagnostic software (in addition, it has saved time in detecting the failure). Nowadays almost no one wants to maintain their car themselves, and you have to have the skills to do it and enjoy DIY. In addition, cars are becoming more reliable and the frequency of maintenance is constantly increasing. It may come back one day, finally ...

Furthermore, the car is a perfect counter-example of planned obsolescence:
They are more and more efficient, less and less polluting, more and more equipped, more and more safe, more and more reliable and above all they last longer and longer (the average age of the car fleet is getting older. 'year by year). And in addition despite all this, they are less and less expensive (the real price of cars is only going down). What more

[dedeleco]

Hi pb2488,
With nuclear power at all costs and up to a little boring Chernobyl, for you everything is perfect in the best of worlds where nothing can be tinkered !!

In fact the average age of my boiler increases every year because I don't like being trapped by repairers and manufacturers and I think that quite a few keep their watch for this reason !!

[Ahmed]

Many interesting interventions since my last visit!

I would like to respond in detail to kistinia whose contributions are so relevant:

Ellul was a lawyer, if he hadn't believed in the power of the laws to consolidate society, could he have taught law all his life?

To do a job, you don't have to believe it; He was well placed to know the limits of the legislative domain, this is particularly clear from reading his work "political illusion"(which I highly recommend!).

The ideal would be to manage to create the opposite, a range of simple, universal, very reliable products whose function of added value is in the longevity of the service rendered by the object.

The meaning of this sentence is obvious, however it would be better to avoid playing on the term "surplus value" and to prefer the more correct one of "use value".
Basically, this supposes the suppression of the economy ...

About banksters ... It is indeed another branch of all added value, which is progressing inexorably.

Same semantic remark as above. Indeed, in the industry the creation of surplus value always requires more capital, it is therefore tempting to seek profit relays in the financial fields fed largely by very hypothetical future gains (loans); note that in this case, there is no surplus value, only capital movements based only on trust (fiat money) or… illusion!

[kistinie]

Furthermore, the car is a perfect counter-example of planned obsolescence:
They are more and more efficient, less and less polluting, more and more equipped, more and more safe, more and more reliable and above all they last longer and longer (the average age of the car fleet is getting older. 'year by year). And in addition despite all this, they are less and less expensive (the real price of cars is only going down). What more

You are a marketing director in the sector ;-)

I do not share this idyllic and superficial view of things.

- The real reliability, we will see it in 20 years. (Just as our life expectancy will be known only "in finite")

- The price of certain parts, such as electronic control unit, electric steering cylinder ... is so high that the failure of only one of these parts sends the vehicle to scrap for a long time before it is at the end of its life expectancy. of life.

[kistinie]

Many interesting interventions since my last visit!

Indeed, many interesting remarks.

Now, the action most frequently proposed and accessible to all, is the power to say no, the power not to buy. The power to buy very expensive high quality products is reserved for certain enthusiasts or wealthy, just as the power to use and maintain simple and robust old products is reserved for handymen and bargain hunters.

In short, for the moment it seems that few ready-to-use solutions are available to counter this rather irritating scourge.

The meaning of this sentence is obvious, however it would be better to avoid playing on the term "surplus value" and to prefer the more correct one of "use value".
Basically, this supposes the suppression of the economy ...

Suppression of the economy ... By what mechanism?
Why oppose economy, capitalism and ethics.
Natural capitalism seems to be a step in this direction of reconciliation of the economy and morals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Ca ... Revolution

[Gébé]

Furthermore, the car is a perfect counter-example of planned obsolescence:
They are more and more efficient, less and less polluting, more and more equipped, more and more safe, more and more reliable and above all they last longer and longer (the average age of the car fleet is getting older. 'year by year). And in addition despite all this, they are less and less expensive (the real price of cars is only going down). What more

You are a marketing director in the sector ;-)

I do not share this idyllic and superficial view of things.

- The real reliability, we will see it in 20 years. (Just as our life expectancy will be known only "in finite")

- The price of certain parts, such as electronic control unit, electric steering cylinder ... is so high that the failure of only one of these parts sends the vehicle to scrap for a long time before it is at the end of its life expectancy. of life.

How can one write such nonsense ?? Since I got a driver's license, I had to drive 3 or 4 million km (I know, it's not good but it's my job) the first cars I knew (those of my parents : 4 CV, 203, aronde ....) painfully 100 km with oil changes every 000 km, it was necessary to change the pistons, the segments, the liners, the rocker arms, the valves, the cardan joints (when there were some) , spark plugs, distributor heads, rocker arms, valves, cylinder head gaskets, cylinder heads, water pump, radiator, dynamo, abundance of bearings, brake cylinders (and masters), shock absorbers (when he had them) etc ... a real Prévert-style inventory.
Then came the "beefy" 504, R21, Ford Escort, which made almost 200 km with oil changes every 000km, a cylinder head gasket here, an injection pump there but nothing too systematic.
And 10 years ago for all brands, cars that run without problems 300 km with emptying every 000 or 20 km
It is enough to have driven 30 or 40 years ago to compare the number of cases that there were in carafe on the edge of the first highways at the time (with much less traffic) and what we see today 'hui ....

So for other technologies, I don't know, but for the car ... there really is no photo !!!

[kistinie]

How can one write such nonsense ...

And there are 10 years with all brands, cars that make 300 km without problems with emptying every 000 or 20 km ....

I made 200.000Km with my 403 tray without changing anything except a pair of starter coal and oil filters all 15.000, car reliability is known for a long time

In fact, more than 20 to 30 years ago, some vehicles already frequently reached 300 to 500.000 km. BX D, ZX D, Mercedes 250D ...

As for the magnificent current vehicles, see you in 25 years for the verdict of real life, until then, it is only pure speculation

[sen-no-sen]

kistinia wrote:

Natural capitalism seems to be a step in this direction of reconciliation of the economy and morals

The term "natural capitalism" in a way resembles "moralizing capitalism", it is an oxymoron, and a perversion of words.
I am very wary of its often misleading terms!

Gébé wrote:

So for other technologies, I don't know, but for the car ... there really is no photo !!!

The car has a special status, it is the exception that confirms the rule.
Being a real object of worship in our society (you only have to see the number of magazines, books, programs, publications, advertisements and others to be convinced of it ...), nevertheless for a ... lava laundry is somewhat different!

[oiseautempete]

How can one write such nonsense, since I have the driving license, I had to make 3 or 4 million km (I know, it is not good but it is my taf) the first cars that I 've known (those of my parents: 4 CV, 203, aronde ....) painfully 100 km with oil changes every 000 km, it was necessary to change the pistons, the segments, the liners, the rocker arms, the valves, the gimbals, spark plugs, distributor heads, rocker arms, valves, cylinder head gaskets, cylinder heads, water pump, radiator, dynamo, abundance of bearings, brake cylinders (and masters), shock absorbers (when there were) etc ... a real Prévert-style inventory.
Then came the "beefy" 504, R21, Ford Escort, which made almost 200 km with oil changes every 000km, a cylinder head gasket here, an injection pump there but nothing too systematic.
And 10 years ago for all brands, cars that run without problems 300 km with emptying every 000 or 20 km
It is enough to have driven 30 or 40 years ago to compare the number of cases that there were in carafe on the edge of the first highways at the time (with much less traffic) and what we see today 'hui ....

So for other technologies, I don't know, but for the car ... there really is no photo !!!

Finally a sensible and objective comment
When those who want to roll with a new current in 20 years, well it is possible, as it was possible for the first all electronic (ignition and injection) for which there are no more electronic boxes nor for that matter components to repair them, on the other hand there are modular systems programmable at will by laptop and I know at least 1 Citroën SM with injection (Maserati engine) from 1973 which runs with such a case, and not only does it run perfectly, much better than originally (and with current injectors), but the engine benefits from advances in technology and consumes 15% less while having a higher torque and power for much lower pollution ...
But WHO will want to drive an outdated car if it has no "collection" value due to its originality? It must be said that in 20 years any new car will ridicule the current ones by its efficiency and low consumption ...
So your criticisms of obsolescence "caused by the manufacturers", do not hold for very technical products but for much more basic things ...
Wanting at all costs for "backward compatibility" is a very considerable obstacle to progress, Microsoft is also the first victim and for example cannot get rid of the ultra outdated "IE6" which is a thorn in its foot ... if Microsoft were in the logic of compatibility at all costs, we would still be at MS DOS / 16bits instead of Win7 64 bits which is becoming the new reference ...