The industrial obsolescence, history of deception

[Ahmed]

Sorry to contradict kistinia, but a legislative text or any other regulatory process can never act except at the margin * since the "drifts" noted here are, in reality, the basic principles which constitute a very successful systemic logic.
It is not about correcting accidental abuse, but about understanding the suicidal nature of "the world organization for the destruction of nature"that denounced Jacques ELLUL **.
This must be assessed, not only by the fatal outcome which is the consequence in the medium term, but by the mutilation of people and the profound deterioration of social relationships current.
It is not a question of moralizing the economy, but of finding together its overcoming the least harmful possible.
A gigantic effort of secularization remains to be carried out, which must emancipate everyone from the religion of the commodity ... for the moment, and perhaps for a long time, the balance of power remains favorable to the high priests of the economy.

* and, paradoxically, allow, thanks to small islands of correct products, the continuation of the whole process, now sheltered from criticism behind this ridiculous screen.
**in "The political illusion".

[kistinie]

Ahmed I don't see a contradiction with your analysis which is very realistic. The legislative aspect, fraud, the dole, that is planned obsolescence, is just further proof of the current deviance.

This is obviously not the root cause, nor the solution, just an additional motivation, in particular, for those who find the situation acceptable and do not envisage any change, just like for those who have abdicated in a general feeling of incapacity.

The right to calm the ardor of some, cheer up, and restore the confidence of others. Nothing more. Now, if we manage to improve the situation, without this legal wooden leg, it's better,

[Ahmed]

You are right, there is no contradiction between our words: they are just two different approaches.
The contradiction is elsewhere: given the balance of power between, on the one hand, economic power, political power (which is only a representative of the previous one) and, on the other hand, legal power (the latter being indeed weak in comparison with the economic-political bloc), it is highly improbable that measures fundamentally contrary to the interests and the logic of the market system, can be anything other than symbolic "patches".
There is also not much doubt about the use of these "reforms" as tools of communication (read: propaganda) helping to maintain the illusion of a moral capitalism (Sic!) ...

[Ahmed]

All the same, when you write:

/... is just further proof of the current deviance ...

I cannot agree with this idealistic and moral vision which opposes a "good" industry which contrives to meet the needs of men and a "bad" one which produces junk to deceive consumers.

In reality, all merchandise has only the function of realizing a surplus value and effecting the capital-commodity-increased capital circulation.
The real or symbolic utility of the goods is only the smallest possible fraction necessary for its reconversion into capital, that is to say the sale.

This therefore reverses your implicit assumption and makes it possible to affirm that if certain goods retain an important use value, it can only be in certain contexts or by exception; this is understandable since, I repeat, only the exchange value matters (and this whatever the moral implication of the manufacturers!).

[sen-no-sen]

You have both reasons.
Legislation as mentioned kistinie is certainly not a panacea, but could nevertheless stabilize the situation.

Ahmed wrote:

There are also not many doubts about the use of these "reformettes" as communication tools (read: propaganda) helping to maintain the illusion of moral capitalism (sic!) ...

Well agree with you, however the "system" being liberal and directed by the "market", the customers (term in the process of disappearance) can express their "merchant citizenship" by purchasing a quality product (there are still some).

The example is more striking with food: if no one buys "battery eggs", the industry will logically stop.
The market must adapt or die!

What is aberrant is that in this "system", citizens' choices must be expressed in the stores rather than in the Town Hall ... decadence of a pathologically affected system ...

[bernardd]

The example is more striking with food: if no one buys "battery eggs", the industry will logically stop.
The market must adapt or die!

What is aberrant is that in this "system", citizens' choices must be expressed in the stores rather than in the Town Hall ... decadence of a pathologically affected system ...

As in depositing money in a bank or borrowing from a bank, we implicitly accept that the bank creates free money and monetary inflation of at least 8% per year since 1997, while benefiting from the income of interest: it is the guaranteed income of the banks.

Besides, the Icelandic report is clear: http://sic.althingi.is/

Icelandic banks have sunk because the bulk of the credit has gone to bank owners and their friends.

When will we have a publication of the beneficiaries of the loans in the euro zone and the associated interest?

[kistinie]

All the same, when you write:

/... is just further proof of the current deviance ...

I cannot agree with this idealistic and moral vision which opposes a "good" industry which contrives to meet the needs of men and a "bad" one which produces junk to deceive consumers.

The question does not arise as far in reflection.

The law punishing such deceptions exists, so it must be applied ... or removed.

Ellul was a lawyer, if he hadn't believed in the power of the laws to consolidate society, could he have taught law all his life?

However, you summarize the situation well with the product with a single added value function.

The ideal would be to manage to create the opposite, a range of simple, universal, very reliable products, whose added value function is in the longevity of the service rendered by the object.

The will of many customers for this type of product exists, but it is not expressed, and even less in a coherent and united manner.

The industry is doing its job, we are not doing our own.


About banksters ... It is indeed another branch of all added value, which is progressing inexorably. Since Jesus sweeping the tables of the usurers of the temple, we continue all the more with the bank loan, money that the bank invents for the occasion. The usury package is now institutionalized since the bank lends at least 10 times the funds it owns.

A must on this subject:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 256183936#

[Surfeurseb]

For my part, this question of the quality of the products that we buy now camouflage an unspeakable fact: what if our "standard of living" was not quite simply declining?
Let me explain:
Before, you worked a while to be able to buy yourself a good.
This property, you could bequeath it to your children, it could serve you all your life.
Now you work less to buy this good, but its value is much lower too, and in addition in the end it will last you only a few years, and you will have to buy another soon.
So you are a prisoner of a system, or you can no longer hope to equip yourself for life, but still you will have to work, to at least keep what you have.

It's a bit radical, maybe?

In any case, we can see that people with low incomes can buy goods, but non-durable, which leave them in the illusion of owning, but this is simply not the case, because temporary.
When not to buy what does not offer a sufficient lifespan, go tell someone not to buy at all, rather than buying low-end: he prefers to have something than nothing at all.

The question, for me, is more of the radical change in society for decades.
Why do we all need to have things that we only use a few times a year?
Why everyone should have their drill, grinder, mower, ...
Why encourage people to be completely independent, to no longer rely on others, to do everything themselves? Simply to isolate them, destroy their ability to react, and create a gigantic captive market.

So we manufacture at the lowest price, so that everyone can buy, and have the illusion of having what they think they need.
In the end, you are caught in a system from which you can no longer get out, because you will always have to work to compensate for breakages, breakdowns and deterioration of your equipment.

Technological innovation makes it possible to renew the fleet, and to replace the old equipment made to last, by a new one, designed to last less. After all, the well-educated consumer is only waiting for the release of the new evolution to buy.

In short, everything goes in the direction of isolating the consumer, remove community links, and enslave it to the trading system, which is no better than captive customers.

Concretely, in my street everyone prefers to have their thermal mower at 100 €, and mow when they want. Anyway, at 100 €, it's a bargain, right? If you have to buy one in three years, well we will buy one.

I stop there for the moment, I should think about structuring

[gegyx]

It is not false.
And I find a lot of correctness in your reasoning.

[Obamot]

we do not manufacture anything: the Chinese nons sell what he wants to sell us to earn money: there is nothing to reproach them ...

On the contrary, there are many things to blame the Chinese and others. Mainly to employ people in conditions worthy of the Middle Ages resulting in the stew on our shelves and the loss of jobs and know-how in Europe.

Ouch! Awesome! Chinese syndrome! ... It is known, the problem ALWAYS comes from abroad ... Pfff, and with us? Aren't we working like crazy? It is not even necessary to go to Spain to see slavery ... But of course close the zyeux on what is happening at our doors. Hum!

Well no, it is neither the Chinese, nor the Arabs, nor the Latinos, nor the Jews .. not even Al Qaeda (lol) responsible, it is US.
It must be remembered that what is produced all over the world is the result of a REQUEST. So yes, the managers are each of us. And as we often repeat in this forum (Christophe, Captain Maloche etc) You can VOTE by choosing your products better!