ecolo-vegetarian meat alternatives, big polluter!

[Exnihiloest]

...
- Regarding the water, I take your value of 120l / d, it is certainly an order of magnitude. Then I just point out that on these 120l 20 to 30 will certainly become milk (in the case of dairy cows) and that moreover I have rarely seen a cow refrain from peeing until it returns to the stable and that 'therefore this water will go back to the ground to a large extent?

I love this kind of observation, the common sense of the country and the feet firmly on the ground. There is obviously no "consumption" of water, the cow does not make it disappear but rather milks it (it is the case to say). It is not the basic ecologist who will guess that the pissing cow replenishes the water tables that it will drink!

[Exnihiloest]

Again, the question is not really whether a particular herbivore consumes more or less grass and grains than .. than what else. But rather to ask the question: is the consumption of animal products really useful and justified?

Insidious question, because even a negative answer to this question would not be sufficient to justify not eating it. Those who eat it have their reasons.

[sicetaitsimple]

] this is called the lessons of history! All the mistakes they made we repeated them some time later, there is no reason why it should change!

Great argument, unstoppable, here I am nailed to the wall. Do you have others like that (on the subject, of course)?

[Janic]

Insidious question, because even a negative answer to this question would not be sufficient to justify not eating it. Those who eat it have their reasons

Elementary my dear Watson! Even the cannibals also have their reasons for eating their fellows. Do you have enough reasons not to do the same?

Great argument, unstoppable, here I am nailed to the wall. Do you have others like that (on the subject, of course)?

I know, I'm like that.
On the subject itself 50 years of practice, does that count?

[sicetaitsimple]

On the subject itself 50 years of practice, does that count?

Have you been a cattle breeder for 50 years?

[sicetaitsimple]

On the subject itself 50 years of practice, does that count?

Have you been a cattle breeder for 50 years?

Complement: the subject in my mind is not at this stage the general title "substitutes ....", but your statement on which I reacted:
"Whether we like it or not," we "will join in the short or medium term the American and Chinese model, which can only provide for the rapid growth of slaughter animals by bailing them with large shots of vegetable proteins which quickly take on weight,"

[Janic]

complement: the subject in my mind is not at this stage the general title "substitutes ....", but your statement on which I reacted:
"Whether we like it or not," we "will join in the short or medium term the American and Chinese model, which can only provide for the rapid growth of slaughter animals by bailing them with large shots of vegetable proteins which make them quickly take weight,"

My full quote is this: " Whether we like it or not, "we" will join in the short or medium term the American and Chinese model which can only provide for the rapid growth of slaughter animals by bosting them with large blows of vegetable proteins which make them gain weight quickly. , (since the reference is only the weight obtained). To achieve this America must squat the lands of South American countries by deforesting galore and the Chinese the most fertile lands of Africa.
Is this model the one we want here? and who would we squat? This is a linked whole, not a simple extract:!
That I linked to History, not specifically to a simple personal opinion. Find one of the rare areas where we haven't imitated them?
Can America and its huge farms producing animal proteins feed these animals or not without deforesting South America to produce corn and soybeans? China can be satisfy its population on its only agricultural land? And what will it be of India in constant demographic growth? So in the short or medium term we are led to do the same with farms with 1.000 cows for example.
On the other hand, the Picardy farm looks poorly compared to the farms that exist abroad. "Larger herds can be found in Germany, Eastern Europe, and even more so in Latin America, New Zealand and the United States, where some farms have several tens of thousands of heads ! "Says the vice-president of the FNSEA, Etienne Gangneron, himself an organic breeder in the Cher.
to believe that France will fall between the cracks is illusory!
hence my reflection that being VGL does not concern me as a consumer, not as a breeder!

[Exnihiloest]

...
"Whether we like it or not," we "will join in the short or medium term the American and Chinese model, which can only provide for the rapid growth of slaughter animals by bailing them with large shots of vegetable proteins which make them quickly take weight,"

Sophism.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pente_savonneuse

It's a shame, you have to start from scratch, but you were already there.

[sicetaitsimple]

Whether we like it or not, "we" will join in the short or medium term the American and Chinese model which can only provide for the rapid growth of slaughter animals by bosting them with large blows of vegetable proteins which make them gain weight quickly. , (since the reference is only the weight obtained). To achieve this America must squat the lands of South American countries by deforesting galore and the Chinese the most fertile lands of Africa.
......
Can America and its huge farms producing animal proteins feed these animals or not without deforesting South America to produce corn and soybeans?

To my knowledge, the USA is a very large exporter of soybeans and corn, at least that was the case less than 10 years ago. China I don't know, I would have to search. Your statements seem a bit quick to me.

[Janic]

To my knowledge, the USA is a very large exporter of soybeans and corn, at least that was the case less than 10 years ago. China I don't know, I would have to search. Your statements seem a bit quick to me.

so inquire. The USA grow (they don't do it themselves, not crazy guys) the corn and soybeans, which they need for breeding, in South America (not all) and therefore export (to Europe between others,) "their" crops
https://www.greenpeace.fr/soja/
In the 2000s, soybeans were one of the main drivers of deforestation, especially in the Amazon. Between 70% and 90% of soybean production is used to feed farm animals
https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/ ... _3244.html
« Even though globally, the extent of forests continues to decrease as population growth and the intensification of demand for food and land continue, the rate of net forest loss has fallen by more than 50% "Says the study published every five years. “However, this positive trend must be consolidated, especially in countries which are lagging behind. "

http://www.iris-france.org/51130-chine- ... en-wagner/