ecolo-vegetarian meat alternatives, big polluter!

[sicetaitsimple]

I believe that you make this comparison alone ... I cited the error of reasoning that to make 1kg of beef you would need 20kg of cereals, something taken from the article cited above. You therefore lend me a reasoning that I did not hold.

!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding or what?
It was not me who took this value of 70kg / day out of the hat to compare it to 20, while also advising not to forget to multiply it by 730 (in the case of beef)!
Well, okay, it was not clear what it was that these 70kg / d ...

[sicetaitsimple]

I cited the error of reasoning that to make 1kg of beef you would need 20kg of cereals,[size = 200] thing taken from the article cited above[/ Size]. You therefore lend me a reasoning that I did not hold.

[

You must have read a little quickly, because the article says:

“Among the anti-meat statistics, we also find, in various variations, the idea that it would take 20 kilos of grain to produce a kilo of beef. An assertion that rests on a false assumption: that all animals are raised in feedlots. But in the UK, for example, cows and sheep spend most of their lives in meadows grazing. In winter, when the grass stops growing, most of the food is used as fodder. (beet greens) or agricultural waste (straw) to feed the animals. Cereals are an exceptional addition for the few weeks it takes to "finish" the animal before it leaves for the slaughterhouse. In other words , this guilty figure is only representative of the worst-case scenario - animals confined to factory farming, which the majority of European consumers reject for a host of reasons unrelated to the question of food profitability. "

[sen-no-sen]

!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding or what?
It was not me who took this value of 70kg / day out of the hat to compare it to 20, while also advising not to forget to multiply it by 730 (in the case of beef)!
Well, okay, it was not clear what it was that these 70kg / d ...

This value is not "taken from a hat", 70kg days are the official figures:

The cow is a ruminant herbivore whose diet consists exclusively of plants. She thus produces milk from grass (60 to 80 kg per day), which it consumes in forms whose balance varies according to the season, the climate, the region of breeding, the species, the age of the animals and the main type of production (meat or milk):

https://www.produits-laitiers.com/article/mangent-les-vaches-laitieres
I think you did not understand my remark, I resume:
To my knowledge, most cows eat grass, and little grain, or as a supplement.
In the criticisms made on the consumption of meats the figures advanced are 15 liters of water for 000kg of meats and 1kilos of cereals ... without explaining that it would be 20kg / days, which suggests that it would only take 20kgs / 20 years of cereals to make 2kgs of red meat hence my remark on the metabolic impossibility.

Basically it is therefore 70kg days of grass, ie 30 to 40kg of dry mass / days to ultimately make 1 kg of beef.
Multiplying by 2 years represents several tens of tonnes, something much higher in surface area than a simple square of potato.
The calorie / surface ration is therefore much better for a vegetarian diet in general.

[izentrop]

A cow (600 / 700kg) is a minimum of 70 kg of grass per day and 120 liters of water per day.
We are therefore very far from only 20 kilos of cereals or other to make 1kilos of meat!
In addition to make a beef it takes on average 2 years before slaughter, or 730 days, for the rest just multiply ...

- Regarding the water, I take your value of 120l / d, it is certainly an order of magnitude. Then I just point out that on these 120l 20 to 30 will certainly become milk (in the case of dairy cows) and that moreover I have rarely seen a cow refrain from peeing until it returns to the stable and that 'therefore this water will go back to the ground to a large extent?

We must also count the water contained in the grass and we easily get to 50 liters of the article.

Sorry for the duplicate.

You have one hour to delete it by clicking on the white cross on a red background, at the top right of your last message.

Multiplying by 2 years represents several tens of tonnes, something much higher in surface area than a simple square of potato.

It is indicated in your link

In France, for each cow, the dairy farm thus has one hectare of meadow and fields to feed it.

In some regions, you will not grow pdt on poor land or only meadows are possible Ruminant farming remains necessary

[izentrop]

Hello, in this document https://criticalvegan.home.blog/2019/03 ... -vraiment/ calculations are carried out in a first part between the vegetable proteins consumed and those converted into meat.

We see that for broilers, you need 1.85 kg consumed for 1 kg of meat produced.

In the second part, gross efficiency: it is a ratio of outgoing over inputs. See details in text

For dairy cattle, we see that the balance is positive: 2.57 kg outgoing for 1 kg incoming.

Vegans can hang on

[sen-no-sen]

Same as above, what does 1,85kg mean for 1kg meat produced?

[izentrop]

Supra?

You should consult the sources cited at the bottom of the page.
The first table comes from this study: https://content.sciendo.com/view/journa ... le-p91.xml

2.2 Data sources
Production data for cattle, pigs, poultry, sheep and goats were obtained from Statistics Austria for the years 2011, 2012 and 2013 (Federal Institute for Agricultural Economics, 2016, Statistics Austria, 2016). The units indicated are: gross national production in metric tons of carcass per year for meat products, production in metric tons per year for eggs and the sum of milk sold and used on the farm in metric tons per year for cows , sheep and goats milk.

The total feed inputs for each category of livestock were taken from the national annual balance sheet in metric tons of dry matter for the years 2011, 2012 and 2013 (Statistics Austria, 2015). The values ​​in the national balance are estimates, which are explained in more detail in Eurostat (2002), Steinwidder and Krimberger (2003) and in Klapp and Theuvsen. (2013).

2.3 Calculation of edible yields for humans
Human edible yields have been calculated as the amount of energy and protein in the parts of human edible livestock products. For the CURR scenario, the amount of bone, as well as the losses between slaughter and consumption and the amount used as pet food were subtracted to calculate the amount of edible meat relative to the total carcass weight with bone. Relevant factors (% of carcass weight) are shown in Table 1. For the MAX scenario, only the amount of bone was removed from the carcass. Animal carcass and egg compositions were obtained from the USDA Nutrient Database (USDA, 2016), while for the composition of cow, sheep and goat milk, national data have been used (Mayer and Fiechter, 2012, ZuchtData, 2014).). For the composition of goat carcasses, the protein content of sheep carcasses extracted from the USDA (2016) and the fat content were calculated by Ringdorfer et al. (2006) for Austrian conditions. 23 kJ / g (protein), 38,9 kJ / g (fat) and 17,2 kJ / g (carbohydrates) (Persson, 2011). The presumed composition of the animal products and the corresponding references are summarized in Table 2.

[Janic]

Again, the question is not really whether a particular herbivore consumes more or less grass and grains than .. than what else. But rather to ask the question: is the consumption of animal products really useful and justified? Whether we like it or not, "we" will join the American and Chinese model in the short or medium term, which can only provide for the rapid growth of slaughter animals by bosting them with large blows of vegetable proteins which make them gain weight quickly. , (since the reference is only the weight obtained). To achieve this America must squat the lands of South American countries by deforesting galore and the Chinese the most fertile lands of Africa.
Is this model the one we want here? and who would we squat?

[sicetaitsimple]

Whether we like it or not, "we" will join the American and Chinese model in the short or medium term, which can only provide for the rapid growth of slaughter animals by bosting them with large blows of vegetable proteins which make them gain weight quickly. ,

What allows you to affirm this? Do you have a gift of clairvoyance?

[Janic]

What allows you to affirm this? Do you have a gift of clairvoyance?

this is called the lessons of history! All the mistakes they made we repeated them some time later, there is no reason why it should change! the attempt at a thousand cow farm should give some thought to this.
Being VGL I could care less like my first layer elsewhere, but less the breeders themselves!