Burn paper or cardboard in your stove = eco or cata?

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Christophe
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Burn paper or cardboard in your stove = eco or cata?




by Christophe » 27/08/08, 11:50

The burning in a wood stove cardboard paper is it ecological and eco citizen or is it an ecological disaster?

For starters: Let's look at Primary Energy and not particles or CO2.

Problem:

In winter, we crack a lot of cardboard (or paper) in our boiler wood deom. Most are from the shop (cardboard supplier, advertising, draft ...).

We would have the choice to report it to the park to contenerate for a full recycling.

Question:

My question is simple (but the answer probably much less): is it energetically (from a global point of view) interesting to burn paper or cardboard instead of recycling them?

The real question would be: is the energy released by their combustion superior to the energy gain needed to recycle recycled cardboard compared to the manufacture of a new cardboard?(All inclusive: collection, sorting, recycling, production of recycled pulp ...).

Should we take into account the gray energy for the manufacture of this paperboard also in the problem? I have a doubt ... since it's considered waste?

I have already heard that the energy saving for cardboard / recycled paper was of the order of 30% ok but 30% of how much? In addition the pulp is not recycling indefinitely (5 if I remember correctly: you must always add new dough).

The debate is open!

As a subsidiary question, is the burning of paper / cardboard more ash than that of wood?
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by chatelot16 » 27/08/08, 12:09

you are right to ask yourself the question: recycling paper is expensive in energy and chemical, in my opinion it is profitable only when we can recover clean and good quality paper

I think that advertising paper is so bad that it clogs the recycling sector: it is also bad to burn: it contains more mineral filler than combustible cellulose ... but burning it at least saves the expense of the Recycling: I'm afraid the community is spending money on unprofitable recycling

practically to burn paper it is necessary to avoid that the abundance of ash does not sabotage the combustion of the wood: it is thus necessary to put very little at the same time
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by clasou » 27/08/08, 12:23

Hello Christophe.
For my part, I warm myself to wood, so I need cardboard and newspaper to light.

As for ashes, the wood is pure is in the paper is cardboard it seems to me that there is glue.

Now in terms of collection, there is one point that gets me wrong.
There are only containers that for the glass is certain paper.

So that to throw the cartons packs, milk :) must go to the dump, and the weekend we even have caps in the dump.

So instead of having a truck picking up a ton of dumpsters we have dozens see hundreds that make each 10-20km ~ to throw a bag of lawn and a carton.

So for me, I think it is better that the particular burns, when the company, it's been a while that some collector put bins available in the factories to rid societies, it must have an interest.

As for the comparison of oil pellets, why not put the stere of wood, besides how much liter of fuel oil or other corresponds to a dry oak st.
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by Christophe » 27/08/08, 12:32

Ah, I see that the subject interests you.

Several things:

a) my question concerned that the "brown" cardboard, that is to say not the marketing packaging cardboard full of ink or plasticized ( : Evil: ) that are real shit when burned. Same with the glossy paper of some advertising flyers (full of chlorine).

By the way easy to see if there is chlorine in what you burn: the flame is green.

b) I do not think that this is the glue that creates ashes: generally the more it is chemical the more it burns. And the quantities are probably pretty weak. Do all cartons contain glue from elsewhere?

c) you are right to worry about the particular collection to park to contenerate because it must represent a significant ecological weight. Spend 2 L of gasoline to bring cardboard to the waste disposal whose recycling will ultimately deduct from saving 0.2L is a nonsense! Shit ... it's going to hurt that topic ...
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by chatelot16 » 27/08/08, 13:02

I do not think that it is the glue that creates the ashes: generally more it is chemical more it burns.


it's not just chemistry that burns! there is also the mineral chemistry: the paper of bad quality contains a lot of mineral load to give it weight for cheap: baryte kaolin limestone

burns banknotes: it is only cellulose and glue: it does not make ash: I do not have the means to try it but it is also noted with paper of good quality: it do much less ash than ads or packs
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by jonule » 27/08/08, 13:04

but no, it's by looking at things in the face that we will be able to change them ;-)

what is amazing is the "recycling" logo that appears on the packaging, in fact is it just that the producer follows an ISO procedure, or is aware of the procedures?

> if not for your super combustion stove, what does it look like in it? it does not burn them "totally"?
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by clasou » 27/08/08, 13:40

For my part, I was talking about cardboard, fridge protection style, water heater.
All that is glossy and assimilated pub, in the garbage incineration I think.
Because my chimney has no filter and certainly does not heat enough. And so I do not know exactly what I will reject in the atmosphere.
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by Christophe » 27/08/08, 15:37

chatelot16 wrote:the paper of bad quality contains a lot of mineral load to give it weight for cheap: baryte kaolin limestone

burns banknotes: it's just cellulose and glue: it does not make ash


Ah, thank you for the clarification!

By studying Gainsbourg's video http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=DTjXQvwGh-0 actually there is not a lot of ashes :D

Did you say "It's not for the poor it's for nuclear power!"

Gainsbourg 4ever! Image

jonule wrote:> if not for your super combustion stove, what does it look like in it? it does not burn them "totally"?


Cardboard or paper alone it has trouble and it makes a lot of ash ... must be added wood to rise in T ° and "re-burn" the ashes ...
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by microDOC » 27/08/08, 17:13

Uh .... excuse me but I'm starting ....

And emission CO² level what gives what? It may be better to burn wood that will emit CO² absorbed by the growth of other trees rather than transformed cardboard that will eventually emit more CO² once burned no?

I understood this on other forum but maybe I misunderstood.
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by C moa » 27/08/08, 17:54

If we compare 5 kg of wood in a log with 5 kg of cartons, papers ..., we realize that the volume needed to store the cardboard is much greater than in the log that is denser.

As any firefighter will tell you, it is not the material that burns but the vapors of the product. Any cellulose fuel must therefore be heated before being burned.

Suddenly, so that your cardboard burns when your stove is not lit you need a lot of air between the "leaves" in order to facilitate vaporization but you have a poor performance with a significant production of ash. To better convince yourself, try to set fire to a ream of solidarity paper, you will see that the trick will take a little and that very quickly it will be extinguished.

If you want to put the cardboard in a stove that is in operation, the heat, the space taken up by the wood, the embers ... limit the volume so you have trouble putting a lot of cardboard at once. So you put some "leaves" which for once will burn very well, with ultimately little ash but the lack of density of the cardboard means that the ashes will fly easily (and it is dangerous). If you take a ream, on the other hand, you will see that it will behave globally like a log.

The idea is not to burn reams so what you can do is take a principle that was popular in the 90 years: the paper and cardboard logs that were made in his garage.
At the time devices were selling everything but it would not be difficult to reproduce. At my parents' home they were done with wet newspaper that was pressed in a kind of half cylinder to evacuate the water and when it dried it became compact and it burned not too badly.

At the time we quickly dropped (we played with only one winter I think) because it was very long and not very practical but I think it can be easy to make it more convenient.

And then, you had to press hard, no more need to go to the gym with : Lol:

Regarding the recycling of cardboard and paper, I do not know what to think. An uncle-printer told me that it was much more expensive and of less good quality, and that there was little more than the public authorities who bought it. So, I'm afraid that a lot of the boxes and other paper collected will end up ... at the incinerator.
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