Gaps in National Education programs and limits of new narcissistic educational methods

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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 30/10/10, 12:57

The knowledge to know explodes so much, that teaching in addition to the basics, must motivate and learn to learn by yourself, to find your bearings according to your own criteria, to judge objectively, to correct your mistakes, more than accumulating knowledge that has become immense !!
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by Christophe » 30/10/10, 14:52

Yes it is the dictate of French educational method which is based on dogma:

Better a well-made head than a full head ...


The problem is thatby dint of wanting well-made heads, well we get very empty heads ...

For example, the selection in the major French engineering schools is essentially, not to say exclusively, based on Maths (Physics being an application of Maths) since Auguste Comte ...

It is a completely obsolete method in the XNUMXth century in my opinion ... from another time, may be valid when France was a colonial empire but more in the era of the net and ubiquitous computing ...

In Germany the selection is resolutely and completely different, much more based on practice, or who is better industrially in the field? Them or us? Better not to answer it otherwise I would pass for a defeatist of the nation ... : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

Concrete example: at ENSAIS, in the genre, useless course: calculation of sizing of gears (efforts, constraints, choice of materials) ... Ah mathematical it's interesting it's on (especially in 3D: epicyloidal trains , helical ...) but interest close to 0 in the field. Already because the chance to still do gear calculation in France is close to almost zero but above all because there must be a multitude of software in the industry for this ...

But it should especially not that national education adapts to the job market, it is obviously the reverse that must be done ... : Evil: :frown:
Last edited by Christophe the 30 / 10 / 10, 15: 26, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 30/10/10, 15:05

Remundo wrote:Insults are not penalized, so thank you and hello that are missing, think about it!


Ah if they are severely but only when they come from the teacher ... : Cheesy: :?

Did67 wrote:- who says good teachers at night at the table in front of children?


Uh at random: the families of teachers ...? : Cheesy:

Did67 wrote:- who expresses admiration for knowledge, knowledge? (and not for an Ipod, an LED screen or the latest car model ????


Uh ... the teachers? : Cheesy:

Did67 wrote:When I was young, was it not, my father respected the instinct like the priest like the mayor; excited, he took off his cap and almost stammered ... If I talk about it, it's because I've lived it!


We have already discussed the steady and inexorable decline of the lack of respect of our societies with respect to authority ... in my day there were still some,

I was in college in ZEP, in 6 and 5ieme one was 30 to 35 in the class. I do not remember a single insult to a teacher on the 4 years (we cons cons cons with stinky balls ... Latin in 4ieme or 3ieme ... but it only happened that only once)

Today ... the situation is completely different ... The fault on the TV probably ...

Question: did you still know the wand on the fingers?
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by Flytox » 30/10/10, 21:58

Insults are not penalized, so thank you and hello that are missing, think about it!

Ah if they are severely but only when they come from the teacher ... : Cheesy: :?

We can find a lack of education on the teacher side as on the student side. I no longer count the number of testimonies from my children and their comrades saying that their teacher despised them. A few untenable cunts are enough to make the whole class hate the teacher.


Did67 wrote:- who says good teachers at night at the table in front of children?


Uh at random: the families of teachers ...? : Cheesy:


Maybe there would be less unpleasant comments about them if they didn't have a solid label of stash still on strike.

Did67 wrote:- who expresses admiration for knowledge, knowledge? (and not for an Ipod, an LED screen or the latest car model ????


Uh ... the teachers? : Cheesy:


Knowledge is no longer the preserve of teachers alone, there is the Internet for those who know how to use it and other sources available.

Did67 wrote:When I was young, was it not, my father respected the instinct like the priest like the mayor; excited, he took off his cap and almost stammered ... If I talk about it, it's because I've lived it!

We have already discussed the steady and inexorable decline of the lack of respect of our societies with respect to authority ... in my day there were still some,


Respect for authority is earned. When you see the big horns that are driving us ... it's a normal reflex.
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by Christophe » 03/07/11, 07:23

In the "debilitating family", I ask the girl: national education "...

Quite simply amazing! Long live generalized stupidity!

The dismissal for serious misconduct of the teacher who wrote the subject would be a minimum !! In fact we could even ask for the cancellation of the test ...

No leakage in the tests of National Certificate, but a big blunder: in the history-geography and civic education writings, Corsica is presented as being part of Italy.

(...)

Italy enlarged, Brazil shrunk

The geography exercise proposes to "name the three countries whose shape is represented by the numbers" 1 to 3. Real puzzle pieces, the very schematic silhouettes of three geographic sets are scattered on the page without consistency, not respecting the least common scale, and indicating neither border territory nor shore.

Thus, Brazil (number 2 on the document below), although thirty times larger than the following countries, looks like an island barely longer than the Italian peninsula. The Japanese archipelago (number 3) is represented by its four main islands, and Italy (number 1), in addition to its boot, includes Sicily, Sardinia ... and Corsica!

No information is given as to this breakdown (political, geological, climatic…?), And no legend explains either why mainland Italy seems to be drawn in bold.


http://www.rue89.com/2011/07/01/au-brev ... lie-211745
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Janic
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by Janic » 03/07/11, 09:09

hello chrsitophe
Concrete example: at ENSAIS, in the genre, useless course: calculation of sizing of gears (efforts, constraints, choice of materials) ... Ah mathematical it's interesting it's on (especially in 3D: epicyloidal trains , helical ...) but interest close to 0 in the field. Already because the chance to still do gear calculation in France is close to almost zero but above all because there must be a multitude of software in the industry for this ...
National education has a priority mission: to provide work for teachers.
Same kind of anecdote:
In the course of adults for training to help the elderly: calculations of a heating installation, or calculations of resistance of materials and calculations of inertia (to know how fast a trolley can go down a slope?)
We border on the absurd!
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Exceed
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by Exceed » 03/07/11, 09:10

Frankly, it really flies not high ...

What should we teach children? Even adults don't know it in most cases ...
The basics in all areas are sloppy, see absent ... it's very serious ...

The question is always the same !!!

What to do ???????????????????????????

Poor children ...
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by Christophe » 03/07/11, 09:23

Hello,

Janic wrote:Same kind of anecdote:
In the course of adults for training to help the elderly: calculations of a heating installation, or calculations of resistance of materials and calculations of inertia (to know how fast a trolley can go down a slope?)
We border on the absurd!


Well that's very useful ... but actually, it has absolutely nothing to do in training in gerontology !!!

Exceed wrote:What to do ???????????????????????????


Start by talking about it to no longer accept this kind of FOULS !! However I am almost sure that the teacher who wrote this subject will hardly be worried professionally!

Such an error in an exam really pisses me off especially when you know the haughty and contemptuous behavior of a lot of teachers!

Obviously, not all are like that (Remundo is there to save their image) but I believe that more and more are, especially those who do not have the "vocation" ...

:| :| :|
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by moinsdewatt » 03/07/11, 11:56

I remind you of this from June 06, 2011. : Cheesy:

Luc Chatel Minister of Education sucks in calculus
Image Image

Luc Chatel dries on a CM2 exercise
Invited this Monday on RMC and BFMTV, the Minister of National Education, Luc Chatel did not manage to solve a mathematical problem posed by Jean-Jacques Bourdin ... extract from the CM2 evaluation questionnaire.


The problem is one of the mathematics questions asked of CM2 students. The question is put to the Minister of Education almost, as it is formulated to schoolchildren: "10 identical objects cost 22 euros. How much do 15 of these items cost? ".
After a few seconds of reflection and after having repeated the question, Luc Chatel: "Well, that makes .... 16,5". Assessment failed: the answer was 33.



http://www.rmc.fr/editorial/164986/luc- ... ce-de-cm2/

the video
http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2011/0 ... de-cm2.php

but he is following in the footsteps of his predecessor Xavier Darcos, who had also had Gaul. (in 2008)
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by Did67 » 03/07/11, 12:38

1) Let's not go back to the Ministers, the problem is not there!

2) Obsolete programs, this is certainly a problem (see the cases cited) ...

3) The bottom of the problem: disinterest in school and knowledge. That with the auxiliary to have, the past participle agrees with the COD if it is placed before ... this is on the program, rehearsed ... until exhaustion by the teachers of French. The basics of calculation, too ... Result: see the tests at the start of the 6th or even see the worst 10% at the end of the 3rd !!! Read a letter of application for teaching positions for people with Bac + 3 to Bac + 5 (even French! 3 nice mistakes, recently)

I come back to my understatement: the school should already be useful for something in the eyes of children (and in part, in the eyes of their parents), from there what we teach them would perhaps leave traces (in knowing that in a natural way, the "evaporation rate" is high!) and then - but only then - it would be worth wondering about what we teach them, therefore on the programs or repositories!

[PS: no need to search for all my French errors on my different posts: I don't take the time to read it again ...).
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