Improve exchanges and Graham's target

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ABC2019
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by ABC2019 » 21/09/20, 15:24

Rajqawee wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:do you know a way to answer someone who assures you that 2 + 2 = 5 without wanting to have the last word? : Mrgreen:


If this is really what you think (that the person in front of you is in absolute denial of an irrefutable thing), you have no interest in continuing the discussion.

it is each his tastes !! it can be interesting to continue the discussion to understand how we arrive at this kind of mental representation for example. It happened to me to exchange quite at length with a creationist "pure and hard" (like taking the Bible literally with a creation of the world less than 6000 years ago, the dinosaurs were contemporaries of the first men, etc .. .). Obviously I did not give him more credibility than 2 + 2 = 5. But I told him for example that the light of the Andromeda galaxy took 2 million years to reach us so I did not see how we could see it if the world was only 6000 years old. He started telling me that we didn't know his real distance, I explained the Cepheids a little to him and coughed ... Well, in the end, he was the one who stopped discussing ...
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Rajqawee
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by Rajqawee » 21/09/20, 15:29

ABC2019 wrote:
Rajqawee wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:do you know a way to answer someone who assures you that 2 + 2 = 5 without wanting to have the last word? : Mrgreen:


If this is really what you think (that the person in front of you is in absolute denial of an irrefutable thing), you have no interest in continuing the discussion.

it is each his tastes !! it can be interesting to continue the discussion to understand how we arrive at this kind of mental representation for example. It happened to me to exchange quite at length with a creationist "pure and hard" (like taking the Bible literally with a creation of the world less than 6000 years ago, the dinosaurs were contemporaries of the first men, etc .. .). Obviously I did not give him more credibility than 2 + 2 = 5. But I told him for example that the light of the Andromeda galaxy took 2 million years to reach us so I did not see how we could see it if the world was only 6000 years old. He started telling me that we didn't know his real distance, I explained the Cepheids a little to him and coughed ... Well, in the end, he was the one who stopped discussing ...


Apart from creating cognitive dissonance in the other, it does nothing. It's almost sadistic! From experience, you cannot change people's beliefs during a discussion.
When one gives an opinion that goes against the other's worldview, cognitive dissonance is created, and usually the discussion is over (and the dialogue of the deaf begins). It is better to leave it alone, and possibly see if the other person comes back to see us ...
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ABC2019
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by ABC2019 » 21/09/20, 16:00

Rajqawee wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:
Rajqawee wrote:
If this is really what you think (that the person in front of you is in absolute denial of an irrefutable thing), you have no interest in continuing the discussion.

it is each his tastes !! it can be interesting to continue the discussion to understand how we arrive at this kind of mental representation for example. It happened to me to exchange quite at length with a creationist "pure and hard" (like taking the Bible literally with a creation of the world less than 6000 years ago, the dinosaurs were contemporaries of the first men, etc .. .). Obviously I did not give him more credibility than 2 + 2 = 5. But I told him for example that the light of the Andromeda galaxy took 2 million years to reach us so I did not see how we could see it if the world was only 6000 years old. He started telling me that we didn't know his real distance, I explained the Cepheids a little to him and coughed ... Well, in the end, he was the one who stopped discussing ...


Apart from creating cognitive dissonance in the other, it does nothing. It's almost sadistic!

well I had found this person as a contact for a site militant for creationism and I was curious to know if she would answer a scientist's questions. Nobody forced him to campaign and to appear on the web, I believe that from the moment we volunteer, we assume the consequences and that it is not sadism that would attack a poor innocent victim!

It's like when the late Guygadebois reproached me for being mean to the late Janic on homeopathy, no one forced them to campaign for H either, there is a moment when you have to assume your positions, and do not play victimization because you meet opponents !!! Ultimately I find it more contemptuous to consider that these people are not mature enough to support the contradictions that are opposed to them .. it is rather an attitude that we have towards children, or psychotics.
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Mééé denies nui went to parties with 200 people and was not even sick moiiiiiii (Guignol des bois)
pedrodelavega
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by pedrodelavega » 21/09/20, 16:26

ABC2019, listen to what Rajqawee tells you: : Wink:

“Other than creating cognitive dissonance in the other, it doesn't help. It's almost sadistic! From experience, you can't change people's beliefs during a discussion.
When one gives an opinion that goes against the other's worldview, cognitive dissonance is created, and usually the discussion is over (and the dialogue of the deaf begins). It is better to leave it alone, and possibly see if the other person comes back to see us ... "


You will never change anyone's mind with your frontal / provocative method, whether you are right or not.
In the same way that you wouldn't change your mind if someone applied it to you.
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ABC2019
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by ABC2019 » 21/09/20, 17:00

pedrodelavega wrote:ABC2019, listen to what Rajqawee tells you: : Wink:

“Other than creating cognitive dissonance in the other, it doesn't help. It's almost sadistic! From experience, you can't change people's beliefs during a discussion.
When one gives an opinion that goes against the other's worldview, cognitive dissonance is created, and usually the discussion is over (and the dialogue of the deaf begins). It is better to leave it alone, and possibly see if the other person comes back to see us ... "


You will never change anyone's mind with your frontal / provocative method, whether you are right or not.
In the same way that you wouldn't change your mind if someone applied it to you.

think again, it happened to me to change my mind. On climate change for example, 15 years ago, like everyone else, I thought it was very serious (even though I was in doubt that there was much we could do to prevent it). By discussing with certain people and by being interested in the arguments of the "skeptics", I evolved, but without falling into another sectarianism either. I now think that a lot of skeptics are talking nonsense trying to deny the greenhouse effect or the existence of CR, which is undeniable, but others are introducing reasonable thinking about the real consequences and the comparison to the consequences of remove fossils, which would be far from negligible. In short, I adopt the attitude which seems to me at all times to be the most rational, but I am likely to change it if I am shown that it is contradictory - I do not have an irrational attachment to my beliefs.
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Mééé denies nui went to parties with 200 people and was not even sick moiiiiiii (Guignol des bois)
pedrodelavega
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by pedrodelavega » 21/09/20, 17:10

ABC2019 wrote:think again, it happened to me to change my mind.
I'm not saying you never changed your mind. I claim that your method is not good (not the fact the argument is valid or not but the method with which you present it)
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ABC2019
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by ABC2019 » 21/09/20, 17:48

pedrodelavega wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:think again, it happened to me to change my mind.
I'm not saying you never changed your mind. I claim that your method is not good (not the fact the argument is valid or not but the method with which you present it)

in my opinion no method is good for those who have decided not to change their mind, I don't know how many forumpeople who changed their mind after talking to you :). You found yourself in the same bag of "trolls" with me! On the other hand, the presentation of each other's arguments can influence those who have no real opinion on the question.
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Mééé denies nui went to parties with 200 people and was not even sick moiiiiiii (Guignol des bois)
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thibr
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by thibr » 21/09/20, 19:00

Remundo wrote:it's a playground here : roll:

like a lot of discussion on the forum at the moment : Cry:
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by Christophe » 30/09/20, 09:06

Heard briefly on the radio this morning the report of the Trump Biden debate ... apparently it was almost never in the center of the target ... insults of all kinds ...

Like what the assholes are even (especially?) At the most levels ...
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Paul72
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Re: Improve exchanges ...




by Paul72 » 30/09/20, 09:11

Christophe wrote:Heard briefly on the radio this morning the report of the Trump Biden debate ... apparently it was almost never in the center of the target ... insults of all kinds ...

Like what the assholes are even (especially?) At the most levels ...


Perhaps in the tenth debate they will begin to evoke their project for the America of tomorrow through their program. But the elections will be over by then ... : Lol: :?
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