François Roddier, thermodynamics and society

[sen-no-sen]

The Mr Plus you refer to reminds me of striatal de Sebastien bohler in the "Human bug"(very good book by the way).
However, and this has already been discussed, it would be wrong to think that it is the striatal the problem.
The real problem it is not human, it is the framework in which its behaviors unfold.
Humans love sugar (flies, dogs and rats too!), Should sugar be banned in nature?
The problem is not sugar, not humans and even less flies, dogs or rats.The real problem is the methodology of the food monopolies which spike a large number of sugar products. in order to make profits, that is to say thermodynamically speaking: to maximize the dissipation of energy in an economic framework.
And if they do this it is not because of an "autonomous center of human psychology", but because of thermodynamic determinisms unfolding inside a cultural complex which itself obeys its same principles.
It is therefore by knowing how all of this works that we can hope to influence our history.

[sicetaitsimple]

The real problem is the methodology of the agro-food monopolies which boost a large number of sugar products in order to achieve profits, i.e. thermodynamically speaking: to maximize the dissipation of energy in an economic framework. .
And if they do this it is not because of an "autonomous center of human psychology", but because of thermodynamic determinisms unfolding inside a cultural complex which itself obeys its same principles.

So what do you advise me for my headache? Aspirin or Doliprane?
PS: Given the example of sugar, I dare not suggest a homeopathic preparation, you might think that I am kidding ....

[GuyGadeboisTheBack]

you might think I'm kidding ....

But no, you just devote yourself to your specialty: pissing off.

[sicetaitsimple]

The difference between you and me is that you write when you don't understand "Ahmed and sen-no-sen is a language which is admittedly difficult to understand at times, but which is common among academics. , while I write in a certain form "I do not understand anything".

But I should survive.

[humus]

The real problem it is not human, it is the framework in which its behaviors unfold.

The framework is largely created by humans, at least for "advanced" civilizations.

The point is not to react against "natural" inclinations (not so natural, many are the fruit of culture, the fruit of learning) coridas vs vegan, each to their satisfaction.
The striatum of each of the 2 camps will reward differently but it is he who is at work. (With the help of the rest of the brain for learning; it is easier to take the brain as a black box and consider what comes out depending on which external stimuli)

The subject is to make our actions aware.
For the example of sugar, it is enough to be aware that too much sugar is harmful to health and of course to have solved your psychological problems in case of addiction stronger than yourself. (Same for any addiction)

The real problem is the methodology of the agro-food monopolies which dop a large number of sugar products in order to make profits, that is to say thermodynamically speaking: to maximize the dissipation of energy in an economic framework.
And if they do this it is not because of an "autonomous center of human psychology", but because of thermodynamic determinisms unfolding inside a cultural complex which itself obeys its same principles.

Well yes, it is the Mrplus of Adam Smith or his friends who determined the rules of the economic game. This satisfied the Mr's plus some who had the power to steer the course of the story.
Today those at the top of the pyramid are satisfied. They have the power. Nothing changes.
At the bottom, we are dependent on the system in place, we are forced to participate or die.
Still the Mr plus of those at the bottom who would rather live than die. Surprising, isn't it?
In this example, sugar is like energy, a parameter making it possible to achieve the satisfaction of Mr plus the winners of the great economic game.
and to satisfy the Mr plus of the losers with "it's better than nothing"

The worry is the recklessness of the winners, because they have the power.
They would be aware of what they are doing, they would stop.
Personally, I never seek to enrich myself beyond my survival in this system.
System that you cannot get out of alone.

It is therefore by knowing how all of this works that we can hope to influence our history.

To focus too much, and it is our culture to do so, on what is external to humans, we miss the target.
As described above, it is only search for satisfaction (Mr plus) and unconsciousness of our actions that have led to today's society.
The energy having increased tenfold these defects of youth.

At the top of the pyramid, they don't seem to want to change anything.
Down ?
We are not revolting enough.

[ABC2019]

The subject is to make our actions aware.
For the example of sugar, it is enough to be aware that too much sugar is harmful to health and of course to have solved your psychological problems in case of addiction stronger than yourself. (Ditto for any addiction):

it doesn't work for global issues, for a very simple reason: whatever your behavior, you have no idea how many people have the same, or what others are doing - so you don't know its impact global.

[GuyGadeboisTheBack]

Oh yeah anyway !!! We were used to big nonsense, but this is beyond comprehension! Bravo Bouzo!

[humus]

The subject is to make our actions aware.
For the example of sugar, it is enough to be aware that too much sugar is harmful to health and of course to have solved your psychological problems in case of addiction stronger than yourself. (Ditto for any addiction):

it doesn't work for global issues, for a very simple reason: whatever your behavior, you have no idea how many people have the same, or what others are doing - so you don't know its impact global.

But of course, the scientists and their reports, the means of information, the means of communication being non-existent, yes it is perfectly logical what you say.

[ABC2019]

The subject is to make our actions aware.
For the example of sugar, it is enough to be aware that too much sugar is harmful to health and of course to have solved your psychological problems in case of addiction stronger than yourself. (Ditto for any addiction):

it doesn't work for global issues, for a very simple reason: whatever your behavior, you have no idea how many people have the same, or what others are doing - so you don't know its impact global.

But of course, the scientists and their reports, the means of information, the means of communication being non-existent, yes it is perfectly logical what you say.

how do you know how many people are going to want (or be able to) have your standard of living in the decades to come? which scientist predicted China's current consumption level 20 years ago?

[Ahmed]

It is easy enough to identify a particular point that might explain the overall workings of a complex system, and this reductionist temptation has not spared the brightest minds. Thereby, J. Ellul did not conclude with an "Mr plus", but with the concept a little more elaborate "of autonomy of the technician system", without any being well defined the causality, supposed intrinsic, of what appears rather as a flat observation phenomenal reversal of means into ends.

In another genre, an author less known here, thomas konicz considering without batting an eyelid, as does F. Roddier in the text that I proposed above, a kind of cybernetic communism capable of very effectively managing any request, since it is understood that all form of abstract value would be eliminated and that these requests would be based only on "utility" * and "real needs" (decided by whom? According to what criteria?). Unfortunately, if the author thus prides himself on achieving a very fine optimization of flows, at no time does he ask himself the question of knowing who controls this global mega-brain, what energy would be the possibility of it, which is at the same time. The other end and why these machines ** and these people would answer these requests without the constraint of the previous context which was also at the origin of the process of computerization. It seems that by offering a managerial alternative to the market, it is in fact realizing the latter's dream: maximum efficiency through the omniscience of data.

* The weakness of certain analyzes is marked by the frequent recourse to moral considerations which are however, in this area of ​​reflection, only inappropriate remains of idealistic thought.
** In this bizarrely hypertechnological approach, machines are supposed to replace humans, which, on the one hand does not seem likely and, on the other hand, does not explain where these opportune machines would come from, nor what constitutes them. and animates them.