Education: dunce cap for the French school?

[Christophe]

Donkey hat for the French school

In Elitisme Républicain, Christian Baudelot and Roger Establet put into perspective the performance of the French education system. By basing their conclusions on econometric work using international data, they reflect on the school that has emerged from French-French quarrels. A stimulating work.

Questioned in the OECD report on the situation of young French people, the republican school is struggling to fulfill its mission. Christian Baudelot and Roger Establet became known for their work on the education system, in particular with their provocative work Le niveau monte, published at Seuil in 1989. Unlike their detractors, the two sociologists base their conclusions on solid econometric studies . They have just written Republican elitism published by Seuil in the collection La République des Idées. They study the comparative performance of the French school system. Roger Establet answered our questions.

http://www.usinenouvelle.com/emploi/for ... or=EPR-183

[Remundo]

we often talk about performance on this forum...

What about that of the EN?

[Christine]

are you a troll

[Remundo]

Hi Christine, how you are thrown

[Christophe]

Admit that you sought on this one!

[Remundo]

I absolutely do not see what I have been looking for ...

I am a teacher and not the last to say that Education is very expensive for "quite" limited results.

Another thing, the school produces diplomas, not jobs

Companies create jobs, not diplomas ...

To meditate and that's it for trollism.

[Christophe]

Ok you were serious then?

So which method of calculating the yield of the EN do you offer?

For the "exits" it's quite easy, it's the budget of the EN, for the "entries" on the other hand much less obvious ... you want to base yourself on the GDP created during his life by the pupil?

I think there are things whose return is difficult to quantify ... education is one!

[Remundo]

Define the performance of the NE? Vast question. I do not have the answer. I try a test without financial considerations ...

What I see is that we employ a huge number of teachers to teach a great many subjects with busy schedules. And they do it well overall. However, is it still necessary?

Because what I also note is that the pupils are often "force-fed" and that trivially, for 1 pupil in 3, one speaks at the wall ...

In ZEP, it is worse.

In addition, the concepts exposed are generally not fully assimilated, then do not fully serve in professional life ...

A first element of performance is the report interested students / total students.

A second element of performance is the report pupil capacities (acquired tools + intelligence) / required capacities.

A third element of performance is the ratio consolidation of personal work / complete mastery of the concepts exposed

A fourth element of performance is the report useful in professional life / total acquired notions

By dint of multiplying yields ... we tend towards 0.


I have already written it, I think that if you want to do too much in the EN, you end up missing out on the essentials.

The main thing in 2009 is to know how to write and speak French, to read and express oneself in fluent English, to have logic and rudiments of mathematics (1st S level).

The problem is that most of the tarpaulins are far from mastering these 4 fundamental points.

These are the 4 fundamentals. Those who generate GDP "in business". The rest is general culture and specialization / improvement ...

... Certainly very important, however if we sink into hyper culture or hyperspecialization for a majority of students (having neither the taste nor the abilities) ... the funds injected into the EN do not no longer find any profitability ...

... Especially since companies do not need a bunch of bac + 5 in management, psychology, modern literature, art history, management ... They are mainly needed operational people few graduates (Bac), some qualified operational people (bac + 2), and some rare graduates (bac + 5 and more).

Some of these aspects are well illustrated in the article of Usine Nouvelle.

@+

[Hasardine]

Personally I am horrified by these spirits of competitions developed from an early age around our children and I think, to deschool my stuffed toys!

does anyone of you do school at home?

[Did67]

No direct line but all the same: India trains 100 engineers per year. Some of the great researchers, surgeon, cardiologist, etc ... in the USA come from Indian universities ...

I think we'd better study the "performance" of their system!

PS for Remundo, I'm also in the system, but on the learning side. I think we have a little more grounded than at college (that I find the weakest link in our system).

A drama: too many teachers who have never been anything but good students. Never faced reality. My best trainer was dunce, kicked out of school twice ... It's no joke. I entered the system at 45 after having rolled my bump well. It may not have been the smartest thing I've done, even if I don't regret it.